Narrative:

Flying in cruise at FL410 en route ags-hpn. We were established on J191 as cleared. Received a route reclr to fly J191 till intercepting J150, then J150 to cyn and then the STAR to hpn. These 2 airways intersect at a point which is unnamed. Shortly thereafter, we received a clearance to descend so as to cross a point 20 NM southwest of eno at FL290. We commenced descent with little delay because of our high ground speed which was aided by a 70 KT tailwind. At the same time, we attempted to reprogram the FMS's for the new airway rerte. This required using 'place/bearing/distance' inputs in order to define the previously mentioned intersection. The 'place' and 'bearing' problems were easily solved but there was no 'distance' published on any radial to the intersecting point. I had the first officer set up the intersecting airway on the #2 side with raw VOR data because we were fast approaching what we thought was the intersection. At this time I had to increase the rate of descent to 4000 plus FPM in the attempt to make the crossing restriction. It became apparent we could not make the restriction and we had to wait a lengthy time to advise a very busy ATC controller. When we could contact him he told us to disregard that crossing restriction (FL290) and, instead, cross a point 15 NM northeast of eno at FL230. It all sounds very simple but the net result was that we failed to intercept J150 to cyn and instead continued on J191 because we had not been able or did not have time to reprogram the FMS's, coupled with a high descent rate in the attempt to comply with the previously mentioned altitude crossing restrictions. This was a problem encountered in descent. Changes issued late to high performance airplanes with highly automated cockpits in late stages of flight could cause severe problems -- recall strasbourg, france. Can we give names to all airway intxns so that they may he quickly entered in FMS's? Especially if ATC needs to use undefined intxns? Can we ask ATC to give ample notification of altitude crossing restriction to high performance, highly automated airplanes? Can we have ATC be continually aware of the problem with descent restrictions a crew may have with high tailwind components affecting dscnts of clean airplanes from high altitudes?

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: HDG TRACK DEV BY CPR MLG DURING DSCNT. AMENDED CLRNC RTE CHANGE.

Narrative: FLYING IN CRUISE AT FL410 ENRTE AGS-HPN. WE WERE ESTABLISHED ON J191 AS CLRED. RECEIVED A RTE RECLR TO FLY J191 TILL INTERCEPTING J150, THEN J150 TO CYN AND THEN THE STAR TO HPN. THESE 2 AIRWAYS INTERSECT AT A POINT WHICH IS UNNAMED. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, WE RECEIVED A CLRNC TO DSND SO AS TO CROSS A POINT 20 NM SW OF ENO AT FL290. WE COMMENCED DSCNT WITH LITTLE DELAY BECAUSE OF OUR HIGH GND SPD WHICH WAS AIDED BY A 70 KT TAILWIND. AT THE SAME TIME, WE ATTEMPTED TO REPROGRAM THE FMS'S FOR THE NEW AIRWAY RERTE. THIS REQUIRED USING 'PLACE/BEARING/DISTANCE' INPUTS IN ORDER TO DEFINE THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED INTXN. THE 'PLACE' AND 'BEARING' PROBS WERE EASILY SOLVED BUT THERE WAS NO 'DISTANCE' PUBLISHED ON ANY RADIAL TO THE INTERSECTING POINT. I HAD THE FO SET UP THE INTERSECTING AIRWAY ON THE #2 SIDE WITH RAW VOR DATA BECAUSE WE WERE FAST APCHING WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS THE INTXN. AT THIS TIME I HAD TO INCREASE THE RATE OF DSCNT TO 4000 PLUS FPM IN THE ATTEMPT TO MAKE THE XING RESTRICTION. IT BECAME APPARENT WE COULD NOT MAKE THE RESTRICTION AND WE HAD TO WAIT A LENGTHY TIME TO ADVISE A VERY BUSY ATC CTLR. WHEN WE COULD CONTACT HIM HE TOLD US TO DISREGARD THAT XING RESTRICTION (FL290) AND, INSTEAD, CROSS A POINT 15 NM NE OF ENO AT FL230. IT ALL SOUNDS VERY SIMPLE BUT THE NET RESULT WAS THAT WE FAILED TO INTERCEPT J150 TO CYN AND INSTEAD CONTINUED ON J191 BECAUSE WE HAD NOT BEEN ABLE OR DID NOT HAVE TIME TO REPROGRAM THE FMS'S, COUPLED WITH A HIGH DSCNT RATE IN THE ATTEMPT TO COMPLY WITH THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED ALT XING RESTRICTIONS. THIS WAS A PROB ENCOUNTERED IN DSCNT. CHANGES ISSUED LATE TO HIGH PERFORMANCE AIRPLANES WITH HIGHLY AUTOMATED COCKPITS IN LATE STAGES OF FLT COULD CAUSE SEVERE PROBS -- RECALL STRASBOURG, FRANCE. CAN WE GIVE NAMES TO ALL AIRWAY INTXNS SO THAT THEY MAY HE QUICKLY ENTERED IN FMS'S? ESPECIALLY IF ATC NEEDS TO USE UNDEFINED INTXNS? CAN WE ASK ATC TO GIVE AMPLE NOTIFICATION OF ALT XING RESTRICTION TO HIGH PERFORMANCE, HIGHLY AUTOMATED AIRPLANES? CAN WE HAVE ATC BE CONTINUALLY AWARE OF THE PROB WITH DSCNT RESTRICTIONS A CREW MAY HAVE WITH HIGH TAILWIND COMPONENTS AFFECTING DSCNTS OF CLEAN AIRPLANES FROM HIGH ALTS?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.