Air carrier X TCASII TA had less than standard separation from Y. System error.

Attributes
ACN	246360
Time
Date	199307
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : ood
State Reference	NJ
Altitude	msl bound lower : 17000 msl bound upper : 17000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng
Flight Phase	cruise other
Route In Use	enroute : direct enroute airway : zdc
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Flight Phase	cruise other
Route In Use	enroute : direct
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 5000
ASRS Report	246360
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 12000
ASRS Report	246154
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	faa : investigated
Miss Distance	horizontal : 24000 vertical : 0
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error

Narrative:

Air carrier X was assigned an intermediate altitude of 17000 ft by ZDC frequency 132.05. We were heading about 220 degrees when ATC told us to make left turn to 010 degrees with no further instructions. I asked him the reason for the turn and he said traffic Y, 12 O'clock, same altitude. He then told us to climb to 18000 ft. I asked him how the conflict had occurred and he told me he was too busy to explain. He then switched us to another frequency. We are investigating the incident through our company. The one suggestion I would make is to offer immunity to controllers if they make an error so they are not reluctant to give relevant information to the crews. Supplemental information from acn 246154: given an immediate left turn to 180 degrees followed by 'climb to FL180.' when asked what problem was, controller responded 'conflict at 17000 ft.' when questioned further, was told 'I am too busy right now.' we were given a frequency change. TCASII had given us a conflict at the same time we were given the turn.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR X TCASII TA HAD LTSS FROM Y. SYS ERROR.

Narrative: ACR X WAS ASSIGNED AN INTERMEDIATE ALT OF 17000 FT BY ZDC FREQ 132.05. WE WERE HDG ABOUT 220 DEGS WHEN ATC TOLD US TO MAKE L TURN TO 010 DEGS WITH NO FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS. I ASKED HIM THE REASON FOR THE TURN AND HE SAID TFC Y, 12 O'CLOCK, SAME ALT. HE THEN TOLD US TO CLB TO 18000 FT. I ASKED HIM HOW THE CONFLICT HAD OCCURRED AND HE TOLD ME HE WAS TOO BUSY TO EXPLAIN. HE THEN SWITCHED US TO ANOTHER FREQ. WE ARE INVESTIGATING THE INCIDENT THROUGH OUR COMPANY. THE ONE SUGGESTION I WOULD MAKE IS TO OFFER IMMUNITY TO CTLRS IF THEY MAKE AN ERROR SO THEY ARE NOT RELUCTANT TO GIVE RELEVANT INFO TO THE CREWS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 246154: GIVEN AN IMMEDIATE L TURN TO 180 DEGS FOLLOWED BY 'CLB TO FL180.' WHEN ASKED WHAT PROB WAS, CTLR RESPONDED 'CONFLICT AT 17000 FT.' WHEN QUESTIONED FURTHER, WAS TOLD 'I AM TOO BUSY RIGHT NOW.' WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE. TCASII HAD GIVEN US A CONFLICT AT THE SAME TIME WE WERE GIVEN THE TURN.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.