Narrative:

Acting as the PNF on air carrier X aircraft while on the published arrival (bucks 3) to phl, we were instructed by ZNY to hold as published at bucks intersection. We made a direct entry into the hold and as the captain turned toward the outbound leg (284 degrees heading) ZNY instructed us to fly a 280 degree heading. As we complied with ATC's instructions, we assumed the holding clearance was cancelled. Approximately 1-2 mins later we were advised by ATC that we were no longer in radar contact. At that point, we questioned the controller as to what he would like us to do since we were on an assigned vector. He instructed us to turn back to bucks intersection, descend to 11000 ft and contact phl approach control. The approach and landing were uneventful. Upon taxi in, we were asked to telephone the radar room. We were asked why we left the hold at bucks. We informed approach that we were following an assigned vector. Apparently, there was a breakdown in ATC handling on ZNY's part. Supplemental information from acn 251910: we were entering holding at bucks intersection, 12000 ft MSL, and halfway through entry turn, ATC advised he was taking us out of the hold, 'turn to a heading of 280 degrees.' we complied, and about 2 mins later, he advised 'radar service terminated.' I asked how he could do that, since we were on a radar vector, and he said, 'no, you are to go back to bucks and hold. I asked for a new holding clearance, since in our opinion, the earlier hold was cancelled by the vector, and he gave us a similar clearance to the first one, same expect further clearance time, and then issued a descent and frequency change to phl approach. The controller issued us a vector and we thought he was taking us in for an approach. The controller may have intended to edge us into a more favorable position in the hold, but he said nothing to us about his intentions other than 'taking you out of the holding pattern, turn to heading of 280.' end of hold, as far as IFR rules and as far as I know. Later, we were advised there had been a loss of separation (to 4 3/4 mi with air carrier Y).

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR X HAD LTSS FROM ACR Y IN HOLDING PATTERN SAME ALT. SYS ERROR.

Narrative: ACTING AS THE PNF ON ACR X ACFT WHILE ON THE PUBLISHED ARR (BUCKS 3) TO PHL, WE WERE INSTRUCTED BY ZNY TO HOLD AS PUBLISHED AT BUCKS INTXN. WE MADE A DIRECT ENTRY INTO THE HOLD AND AS THE CAPT TURNED TOWARD THE OUTBOUND LEG (284 DEGS HDG) ZNY INSTRUCTED US TO FLY A 280 DEG HDG. AS WE COMPLIED WITH ATC'S INSTRUCTIONS, WE ASSUMED THE HOLDING CLRNC WAS CANCELLED. APPROX 1-2 MINS LATER WE WERE ADVISED BY ATC THAT WE WERE NO LONGER IN RADAR CONTACT. AT THAT POINT, WE QUESTIONED THE CTLR AS TO WHAT HE WOULD LIKE US TO DO SINCE WE WERE ON AN ASSIGNED VECTOR. HE INSTRUCTED US TO TURN BACK TO BUCKS INTXN, DSND TO 11000 FT AND CONTACT PHL APCH CTL. THE APCH AND LNDG WERE UNEVENTFUL. UPON TAXI IN, WE WERE ASKED TO TELEPHONE THE RADAR ROOM. WE WERE ASKED WHY WE LEFT THE HOLD AT BUCKS. WE INFORMED APCH THAT WE WERE FOLLOWING AN ASSIGNED VECTOR. APPARENTLY, THERE WAS A BREAKDOWN IN ATC HANDLING ON ZNY'S PART. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 251910: WE WERE ENTERING HOLDING AT BUCKS INTXN, 12000 FT MSL, AND HALFWAY THROUGH ENTRY TURN, ATC ADVISED HE WAS TAKING US OUT OF THE HOLD, 'TURN TO A HDG OF 280 DEGS.' WE COMPLIED, AND ABOUT 2 MINS LATER, HE ADVISED 'RADAR SVC TERMINATED.' I ASKED HOW HE COULD DO THAT, SINCE WE WERE ON A RADAR VECTOR, AND HE SAID, 'NO, YOU ARE TO GO BACK TO BUCKS AND HOLD. I ASKED FOR A NEW HOLDING CLRNC, SINCE IN OUR OPINION, THE EARLIER HOLD WAS CANCELLED BY THE VECTOR, AND HE GAVE US A SIMILAR CLRNC TO THE FIRST ONE, SAME EXPECT FURTHER CLRNC TIME, AND THEN ISSUED A DSCNT AND FREQ CHANGE TO PHL APCH. THE CTLR ISSUED US A VECTOR AND WE THOUGHT HE WAS TAKING US IN FOR AN APCH. THE CTLR MAY HAVE INTENDED TO EDGE US INTO A MORE FAVORABLE POS IN THE HOLD, BUT HE SAID NOTHING TO US ABOUT HIS INTENTIONS OTHER THAN 'TAKING YOU OUT OF THE HOLDING PATTERN, TURN TO HDG OF 280.' END OF HOLD, AS FAR AS IFR RULES AND AS FAR AS I KNOW. LATER, WE WERE ADVISED THERE HAD BEEN A LOSS OF SEPARATION (TO 4 3/4 MI WITH ACR Y).

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.