37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 253150 |
Time | |
Date | 199310 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : las |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 9500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : las |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : departure |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Experience | controller non radar : 9 controller radar : 4 |
ASRS Report | 253150 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
The oasis departure at las has a crossing restr of 7000 ft at LAS211007, then climb to assigned altitude. When aircraft initially contact departure, they normally report altitude leaving and assigned altitude, e.g., 'las vegas departure, X is with you, leaving 3500 ft for 15000 ft.' recently I've noticed more aircraft giving the crossing restr as their assigned altitude, even though they intend to climb after meeting the restr. When this first occurred, air carrier X called leaving 3000 ft for 7000 ft. I had en route traffic opposite direction at 9500 ft, and same direction aircraft Y at 8500 ft, so I issued no higher altitude. 10 mi south of the field, I noticed the departing pilot was leaving 8000 ft, so I issued traffic and asked the pilot what he was doing, to which he replied 'climbing to 17000 ft.' when asked about his reported climb to 7000 ft, he indicated that at the time that was his assigned altitude, until meeting the restr. It appears that the pilot wanted to make me aware of something that I already knew, his restr of 7000 ft at 7 DME. I'm well aware of this restr and frankly don't need every departure to remind me that he would like the restr lifted, which is his real intent in stating same. I'm not able to find a requirement that pilots report assigned altitude or altitude climbing to, but if they are going to say altitude climbing to or assigned, they should report it correctly. Since this first incident, whenever a pilot reports climbing to 7000 ft, I ask him to verify assigned altitude and many times have been advised that the pilot fully intended to climb above his reported 7000 ft to his actual assigned altitude.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X CLB THROUGH OCCUPIED ALT HAD LTSS FROM ACFT Y. SYS ERROR.
Narrative: THE OASIS DEP AT LAS HAS A XING RESTR OF 7000 FT AT LAS211007, THEN CLB TO ASSIGNED ALT. WHEN ACFT INITIALLY CONTACT DEP, THEY NORMALLY RPT ALT LEAVING AND ASSIGNED ALT, E.G., 'LAS VEGAS DEP, X IS WITH YOU, LEAVING 3500 FT FOR 15000 FT.' RECENTLY I'VE NOTICED MORE ACFT GIVING THE XING RESTR AS THEIR ASSIGNED ALT, EVEN THOUGH THEY INTEND TO CLB AFTER MEETING THE RESTR. WHEN THIS FIRST OCCURRED, ACR X CALLED LEAVING 3000 FT FOR 7000 FT. I HAD ENRTE TFC OPPOSITE DIRECTION AT 9500 FT, AND SAME DIRECTION ACFT Y AT 8500 FT, SO I ISSUED NO HIGHER ALT. 10 MI S OF THE FIELD, I NOTICED THE DEPARTING PLT WAS LEAVING 8000 FT, SO I ISSUED TFC AND ASKED THE PLT WHAT HE WAS DOING, TO WHICH HE REPLIED 'CLBING TO 17000 FT.' WHEN ASKED ABOUT HIS RPTED CLB TO 7000 FT, HE INDICATED THAT AT THE TIME THAT WAS HIS ASSIGNED ALT, UNTIL MEETING THE RESTR. IT APPEARS THAT THE PLT WANTED TO MAKE ME AWARE OF SOMETHING THAT I ALREADY KNEW, HIS RESTR OF 7000 FT AT 7 DME. I'M WELL AWARE OF THIS RESTR AND FRANKLY DON'T NEED EVERY DEP TO REMIND ME THAT HE WOULD LIKE THE RESTR LIFTED, WHICH IS HIS REAL INTENT IN STATING SAME. I'M NOT ABLE TO FIND A REQUIREMENT THAT PLTS RPT ASSIGNED ALT OR ALT CLBING TO, BUT IF THEY ARE GOING TO SAY ALT CLBING TO OR ASSIGNED, THEY SHOULD RPT IT CORRECTLY. SINCE THIS FIRST INCIDENT, WHENEVER A PLT RPTS CLBING TO 7000 FT, I ASK HIM TO VERIFY ASSIGNED ALT AND MANY TIMES HAVE BEEN ADVISED THAT THE PLT FULLY INTENDED TO CLB ABOVE HIS RPTED 7000 FT TO HIS ACTUAL ASSIGNED ALT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.