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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 254354 |
Time | |
Date | 199310 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : coe |
State Reference | ID |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 1750 flight time type : 450 |
ASRS Report | 254354 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 169 flight time total : 7324 |
ASRS Report | 254338 |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : landing without clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
On our first leg of the morning we received the WX/NOTAMS from our company dispatch and noted the applicable NOTAMS for our flight (there were none for coeur D'alene). Our return flight departed lewiston, identification, en route to coeur D'alene. We were on an IFR flight plan and we were handed off from ZSE to spokane approach control. We had monitored the AWOS WX for coeur D'alene twice en route and there was no mention of any runway closed on the AWOS (this was later confirmed with the airport manager). I checked in with spokane approach and advised the controller we wanted to execute the VOR 1 approach and I also advised the controller we had the AWOS. At no time did I tell the controller we had NOTAMS for the airport. Approach control. Advised us we were cleared for the VOR runway 1 approach (to the runway that had been recently closed). Approach control made no mention of any runway closures. I also checked in with our dispatch and advised them of our ETA. They made no mention of any runway closures (information that it was later confirmed they had but did not pass along). We landed uneventfully on a clear runway and were later advised it had been closed at the time we touched down. This could have been prevented if our dispatch would have advised us or if ATC would have advised us or if the AWOS would have advised us. Supplemental information from acn 254338: I asked company personnel to have dispatch forward us a copy of the new WX at lws. I was interested in any amendments that may have been processed. The WX that company dispatch faxed to lws (our stop just prior to coe), was, first of all, hard to read, with parts of the page very light and almost indiscernible. Second of all it was incomplete in that it did not contain any updated airmets, sigmets, or WX watches, but rather just current WX and forecasts. Because of that, I retained both the original copy of WX (which contained NOTAMS and the airmets, sigmets, and WX watches), and the new WX which contained current and forecast WX, and as we later discovered, updated NOTAMS. For the latest coe WX we listened to the coe AWOS facility. The AWOS made no mention of any runway closure of any kind. At no time did we observe any 'X' on the end of the runway, vehicles on, or in close proximity to any portion of the runway, which would indicate work on or around the runway, orange cones, flashing lights, any other visual devices sometimes used in conjunction with a 'closed runway.' after landing, an airport employee indicated to me that runway 19 was closed. He indicated that spokane approach had been notified. En route from lws to coe, I had reviewed the 'old' hard copy WX sheet for NOTAMS, because I did not see them on the new sheet, and thus, did not believe the newer, incomplete copy of WX, had the NOTAMS. In fact, it did, although because of the quality of the facsimile copy, they were very hard to see or read. Though hard to read, they did reveal a closure for runway 19 at coe. I reviewed the one I believed to be the most accurate and complete, yet missed additional data on a second copy, due to its poor facsimile quality, and my belief that it was incomplete. This was my error. However, this can only happen when there are multiple copies of 'time different' WX on board, and where the copy is subject to the varying degrees of facsimile quality. Secondly, facsimile quality is something that is always of a concern, and this situation reveals explicitly the problems that arise with a poor reproduction of printed WX via facsimile. Current WX would be much easier to read and use if it were retrieved station to station via computer modem and national WX service. This process would avoid the facsimile altogether, and provide much clrer, 'real time' WX. Later, we again taxied out for departure. This time, as we monitored the AWOS WX for coe, we heard a very strong remark on the end of the recorded WX, stating, 'runway 19 is closed, repeat, runway 19 is closed.' this employee indicated that including a runway closure notification on the remarks portion of the AWOS was their normal procedure, but mistakenly, this time, it had not been done. In light of the fact that the coe airport auths made a special effort to informspokane ATC of the closure, it would seem unlikely that they would have been unaware. Thus, I must assume that for some other reason they chose not to inform us of the closure upon our 'frequency check-in,' and instrument approach request. I cannot remember ever having an ATC agency clear me for an instrument approach to a closed runway, without indicating that the runway was closed. While this flight operation is 135 and not 121, I will encourage the company's director of operations to consider: 1) instituting a more direct, proactive support of 135 scheduled flight operations, with the type of company flight operations concern that is similar (and required) to that of 121 scheduled domestic flight operations. 2) instituting a procedure whereby current WX is provided regularly to 135 scheduled service flts (through stations as opposed to dispatch) without special crew request, and ensuring that such WX is a complete new copy of all pertinent WX matters.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR LTT LANDED ON CLOSED RWY AT NON TWR ARPT.
Narrative: ON OUR FIRST LEG OF THE MORNING WE RECEIVED THE WX/NOTAMS FROM OUR COMPANY DISPATCH AND NOTED THE APPLICABLE NOTAMS FOR OUR FLT (THERE WERE NONE FOR COEUR D'ALENE). OUR RETURN FLT DEPARTED LEWISTON, ID, ENRTE TO COEUR D'ALENE. WE WERE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN AND WE WERE HANDED OFF FROM ZSE TO SPOKANE APCH CTL. WE HAD MONITORED THE AWOS WX FOR COEUR D'ALENE TWICE ENRTE AND THERE WAS NO MENTION OF ANY RWY CLOSED ON THE AWOS (THIS WAS LATER CONFIRMED WITH THE ARPT MGR). I CHKED IN WITH SPOKANE APCH AND ADVISED THE CTLR WE WANTED TO EXECUTE THE VOR 1 APCH AND I ALSO ADVISED THE CTLR WE HAD THE AWOS. AT NO TIME DID I TELL THE CTLR WE HAD NOTAMS FOR THE ARPT. APCH CTL. ADVISED US WE WERE CLRED FOR THE VOR RWY 1 APCH (TO THE RWY THAT HAD BEEN RECENTLY CLOSED). APCH CTL MADE NO MENTION OF ANY RWY CLOSURES. I ALSO CHKED IN WITH OUR DISPATCH AND ADVISED THEM OF OUR ETA. THEY MADE NO MENTION OF ANY RWY CLOSURES (INFO THAT IT WAS LATER CONFIRMED THEY HAD BUT DID NOT PASS ALONG). WE LANDED UNEVENTFULLY ON A CLR RWY AND WERE LATER ADVISED IT HAD BEEN CLOSED AT THE TIME WE TOUCHED DOWN. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED IF OUR DISPATCH WOULD HAVE ADVISED US OR IF ATC WOULD HAVE ADVISED US OR IF THE AWOS WOULD HAVE ADVISED US. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 254338: I ASKED COMPANY PERSONNEL TO HAVE DISPATCH FORWARD US A COPY OF THE NEW WX AT LWS. I WAS INTERESTED IN ANY AMENDMENTS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN PROCESSED. THE WX THAT COMPANY DISPATCH FAXED TO LWS (OUR STOP JUST PRIOR TO COE), WAS, FIRST OF ALL, HARD TO READ, WITH PARTS OF THE PAGE VERY LIGHT AND ALMOST INDISCERNIBLE. SECOND OF ALL IT WAS INCOMPLETE IN THAT IT DID NOT CONTAIN ANY UPDATED AIRMETS, SIGMETS, OR WX WATCHES, BUT RATHER JUST CURRENT WX AND FORECASTS. BECAUSE OF THAT, I RETAINED BOTH THE ORIGINAL COPY OF WX (WHICH CONTAINED NOTAMS AND THE AIRMETS, SIGMETS, AND WX WATCHES), AND THE NEW WX WHICH CONTAINED CURRENT AND FORECAST WX, AND AS WE LATER DISCOVERED, UPDATED NOTAMS. FOR THE LATEST COE WX WE LISTENED TO THE COE AWOS FACILITY. THE AWOS MADE NO MENTION OF ANY RWY CLOSURE OF ANY KIND. AT NO TIME DID WE OBSERVE ANY 'X' ON THE END OF THE RWY, VEHICLES ON, OR IN CLOSE PROX TO ANY PORTION OF THE RWY, WHICH WOULD INDICATE WORK ON OR AROUND THE RWY, ORANGE CONES, FLASHING LIGHTS, ANY OTHER VISUAL DEVICES SOMETIMES USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH A 'CLOSED RWY.' AFTER LNDG, AN ARPT EMPLOYEE INDICATED TO ME THAT RWY 19 WAS CLOSED. HE INDICATED THAT SPOKANE APCH HAD BEEN NOTIFIED. ENRTE FROM LWS TO COE, I HAD REVIEWED THE 'OLD' HARD COPY WX SHEET FOR NOTAMS, BECAUSE I DID NOT SEE THEM ON THE NEW SHEET, AND THUS, DID NOT BELIEVE THE NEWER, INCOMPLETE COPY OF WX, HAD THE NOTAMS. IN FACT, IT DID, ALTHOUGH BECAUSE OF THE QUALITY OF THE FAX COPY, THEY WERE VERY HARD TO SEE OR READ. THOUGH HARD TO READ, THEY DID REVEAL A CLOSURE FOR RWY 19 AT COE. I REVIEWED THE ONE I BELIEVED TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE AND COMPLETE, YET MISSED ADDITIONAL DATA ON A SECOND COPY, DUE TO ITS POOR FAX QUALITY, AND MY BELIEF THAT IT WAS INCOMPLETE. THIS WAS MY ERROR. HOWEVER, THIS CAN ONLY HAPPEN WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE COPIES OF 'TIME DIFFERENT' WX ON BOARD, AND WHERE THE COPY IS SUBJECT TO THE VARYING DEGS OF FAX QUALITY. SECONDLY, FAX QUALITY IS SOMETHING THAT IS ALWAYS OF A CONCERN, AND THIS SIT REVEALS EXPLICITLY THE PROBS THAT ARISE WITH A POOR REPRODUCTION OF PRINTED WX VIA FAX. CURRENT WX WOULD BE MUCH EASIER TO READ AND USE IF IT WERE RETRIEVED STATION TO STATION VIA COMPUTER MODEM AND NATIONAL WX SVC. THIS PROCESS WOULD AVOID THE FAX ALTOGETHER, AND PROVIDE MUCH CLRER, 'REAL TIME' WX. LATER, WE AGAIN TAXIED OUT FOR DEP. THIS TIME, AS WE MONITORED THE AWOS WX FOR COE, WE HEARD A VERY STRONG REMARK ON THE END OF THE RECORDED WX, STATING, 'RWY 19 IS CLOSED, REPEAT, RWY 19 IS CLOSED.' THIS EMPLOYEE INDICATED THAT INCLUDING A RWY CLOSURE NOTIFICATION ON THE REMARKS PORTION OF THE AWOS WAS THEIR NORMAL PROC, BUT MISTAKENLY, THIS TIME, IT HAD NOT BEEN DONE. IN LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT THE COE ARPT AUTHS MADE A SPECIAL EFFORT TO INFORMSPOKANE ATC OF THE CLOSURE, IT WOULD SEEM UNLIKELY THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN UNAWARE. THUS, I MUST ASSUME THAT FOR SOME OTHER REASON THEY CHOSE NOT TO INFORM US OF THE CLOSURE UPON OUR 'FREQ CHK-IN,' AND INST APCH REQUEST. I CANNOT REMEMBER EVER HAVING AN ATC AGENCY CLR ME FOR AN INST APCH TO A CLOSED RWY, WITHOUT INDICATING THAT THE RWY WAS CLOSED. WHILE THIS FLT OP IS 135 AND NOT 121, I WILL ENCOURAGE THE COMPANY'S DIRECTOR OF OPS TO CONSIDER: 1) INSTITUTING A MORE DIRECT, PROACTIVE SUPPORT OF 135 SCHEDULED FLT OPS, WITH THE TYPE OF COMPANY FLT OPS CONCERN THAT IS SIMILAR (AND REQUIRED) TO THAT OF 121 SCHEDULED DOMESTIC FLT OPS. 2) INSTITUTING A PROC WHEREBY CURRENT WX IS PROVIDED REGULARLY TO 135 SCHEDULED SVC FLTS (THROUGH STATIONS AS OPPOSED TO DISPATCH) WITHOUT SPECIAL CREW REQUEST, AND ENSURING THAT SUCH WX IS A COMPLETE NEW COPY OF ALL PERTINENT WX MATTERS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.