37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 260965 |
Time | |
Date | 199401 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : bwj |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 24000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zfw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 260965 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 261038 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : investigated |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 24000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Intra Facility Coordination Failure Operational Error |
Narrative:
Air carrier X was in a holding pattern at conny intersection at 24000 ft. We had initially been assigned an en route hold at conny at FL260 at approximately XX40 local with an efc in 25 mins. During the hold we were then cleared to FL240. We were on center frequency 134.47. This particular controller was working our holding pattern along with an additional holding pattern at rouse intersection. He was extremely busy and we had commented in the cockpit that it was difficult to maintain our situational awareness when the controller is working 2 holding patterns. In approximately 20 mins, inbound leg to conny at 24000 ft, we were given a frequency change to 124.87. We anticipated being cleared out of the holding pattern as we believed we were the bottom of the stack and also we were approaching our efc. Upon checking in on frequency 124.87, the controller simply acknowledged our contact so we started our turn outbound. We were level outbound when we got a TCASII RA. We showed traffic Y same altitude at our 1-2 O'clock position. Almost immediately the TA changed to an RA with a command to climb 1500-2000 FPM. At almost the same time as the RA, the controller noticed the problem and immediately issued an urgent descent to 11000 ft. We elected to follow the controller's instruction rather than the RA command, because I believe the RA climb command would have climbed us into other traffic above in the holding pattern! Both of the above controllers had a very high workload. Supplemental information from acn 261038: our flight was holding at conny at 24000 ft. As we were turning outbound just prior to our efc, we received a TCASII TA, which immediately turned to an RA. Also, center at the same time asked if we were still holding and issued a descent. The RA called for a climb. We saw the traffic and elected to descend due to what center said and believing other planes to be above us. Center failed to clear us out of the hold. They were very busy and working 2 holding patterns that we heard. I believe center's high workload contributed to this error.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X TCASII TA RA HAD LTSS FROM ACR Y IN HOLDING PATTERN AT SAME ALT. SYS ERROR.
Narrative: ACR X WAS IN A HOLDING PATTERN AT CONNY INTXN AT 24000 FT. WE HAD INITIALLY BEEN ASSIGNED AN ENRTE HOLD AT CONNY AT FL260 AT APPROX XX40 LCL WITH AN EFC IN 25 MINS. DURING THE HOLD WE WERE THEN CLRED TO FL240. WE WERE ON CTR FREQ 134.47. THIS PARTICULAR CTLR WAS WORKING OUR HOLDING PATTERN ALONG WITH AN ADDITIONAL HOLDING PATTERN AT ROUSE INTXN. HE WAS EXTREMELY BUSY AND WE HAD COMMENTED IN THE COCKPIT THAT IT WAS DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN OUR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS WHEN THE CTLR IS WORKING 2 HOLDING PATTERNS. IN APPROX 20 MINS, INBOUND LEG TO CONNY AT 24000 FT, WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE TO 124.87. WE ANTICIPATED BEING CLRED OUT OF THE HOLDING PATTERN AS WE BELIEVED WE WERE THE BOTTOM OF THE STACK AND ALSO WE WERE APCHING OUR EFC. UPON CHKING IN ON FREQ 124.87, THE CTLR SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGED OUR CONTACT SO WE STARTED OUR TURN OUTBOUND. WE WERE LEVEL OUTBOUND WHEN WE GOT A TCASII RA. WE SHOWED TFC Y SAME ALT AT OUR 1-2 O'CLOCK POS. ALMOST IMMEDIATELY THE TA CHANGED TO AN RA WITH A COMMAND TO CLB 1500-2000 FPM. AT ALMOST THE SAME TIME AS THE RA, THE CTLR NOTICED THE PROB AND IMMEDIATELY ISSUED AN URGENT DSCNT TO 11000 FT. WE ELECTED TO FOLLOW THE CTLR'S INSTRUCTION RATHER THAN THE RA COMMAND, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE RA CLB COMMAND WOULD HAVE CLBED US INTO OTHER TFC ABOVE IN THE HOLDING PATTERN! BOTH OF THE ABOVE CTLRS HAD A VERY HIGH WORKLOAD. SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FROM ACN 261038: OUR FLT WAS HOLDING AT CONNY AT 24000 FT. AS WE WERE TURNING OUTBOUND JUST PRIOR TO OUR EFC, WE RECEIVED A TCASII TA, WHICH IMMEDIATELY TURNED TO AN RA. ALSO, CTR AT THE SAME TIME ASKED IF WE WERE STILL HOLDING AND ISSUED A DSCNT. THE RA CALLED FOR A CLB. WE SAW THE TFC AND ELECTED TO DSND DUE TO WHAT CTR SAID AND BELIEVING OTHER PLANES TO BE ABOVE US. CTR FAILED TO CLR US OUT OF THE HOLD. THEY WERE VERY BUSY AND WORKING 2 HOLDING PATTERNS THAT WE HEARD. I BELIEVE CTR'S HIGH WORKLOAD CONTRIBUTED TO THIS ERROR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.