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Air carrier return land problem creates flight over 8 in 24. Company regulations do not allow.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 265697 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199403 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : zzz |
| State Reference | US |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 9600 flight time type : 4500 |
| ASRS Report | 265697 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On several occasions, I have talked with my company about maximum flying time during a 24 hour and 7 day period. The reply I get from the company and our poi is as follows: if you start a day that is scheduled under the maximum time allowed, then you can exceed the maximum time during the course of the day and be legal. But in my case, I had an unscheduled landing during the day. I had to return to my departure point because of a malfunction on the airplane. By doing so, this changes the rule. Because of the unscheduled landing, everything after that point becomes rescheduled. Now the rule applies from that point on. I was originally scheduled for 7.5 hours of flying on the day in question. Because of the unscheduled return and landing, it put me over 8 hours of scheduled flying. I actually flew 9.1 hours that day. On one hand, the FAA allows you to readily exceed the maximum time rule while on the other hand, you are in violation. There is a confusion here. The rule should stand fast. Any exceptions should be applied at the end of the day, not at the beginning or during. Because of this confusion, I have inadvertently exceeded the maximum time in a 24 hour period by 1.6 hours. The FAA needs to reexamine the duty regulations and put out a more simple explanation. The rule in reference is far 121.471. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter sent in report just as protection as no FAA involvement. He went to speak with his chief pilot and by chance another pilot was present who had had a run in with FAA. It seems that company policy differs from FAA regulations and once the flight returned to land a 'new' schedule was in progress. He violated no far. His concern when he ended flight and realized the added time was for scheduling proper rest time without which he would have violated FARS. Reporter said crew was lulled into playing catch up all day with delays and did not realize they were so beyond flight time. Chief pilot recommended the report be sent to ASRS.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR RETURN LAND PROB CREATES FLT OVER 8 IN 24. COMPANY REGS DO NOT ALLOW.
Narrative: ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, I HAVE TALKED WITH MY COMPANY ABOUT MAX FLYING TIME DURING A 24 HR AND 7 DAY PERIOD. THE REPLY I GET FROM THE COMPANY AND OUR POI IS AS FOLLOWS: IF YOU START A DAY THAT IS SCHEDULED UNDER THE MAX TIME ALLOWED, THEN YOU CAN EXCEED THE MAX TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THE DAY AND BE LEGAL. BUT IN MY CASE, I HAD AN UNSCHEDULED LNDG DURING THE DAY. I HAD TO RETURN TO MY DEP POINT BECAUSE OF A MALFUNCTION ON THE AIRPLANE. BY DOING SO, THIS CHANGES THE RULE. BECAUSE OF THE UNSCHEDULED LNDG, EVERYTHING AFTER THAT POINT BECOMES RESCHEDULED. NOW THE RULE APPLIES FROM THAT POINT ON. I WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR 7.5 HRS OF FLYING ON THE DAY IN QUESTION. BECAUSE OF THE UNSCHEDULED RETURN AND LNDG, IT PUT ME OVER 8 HRS OF SCHEDULED FLYING. I ACTUALLY FLEW 9.1 HRS THAT DAY. ON ONE HAND, THE FAA ALLOWS YOU TO READILY EXCEED THE MAX TIME RULE WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU ARE IN VIOLATION. THERE IS A CONFUSION HERE. THE RULE SHOULD STAND FAST. ANY EXCEPTIONS SHOULD BE APPLIED AT THE END OF THE DAY, NOT AT THE BEGINNING OR DURING. BECAUSE OF THIS CONFUSION, I HAVE INADVERTENTLY EXCEEDED THE MAX TIME IN A 24 HR PERIOD BY 1.6 HRS. THE FAA NEEDS TO REEXAMINE THE DUTY REGS AND PUT OUT A MORE SIMPLE EXPLANATION. THE RULE IN REF IS FAR 121.471. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR SENT IN RPT JUST AS PROTECTION AS NO FAA INVOLVEMENT. HE WENT TO SPEAK WITH HIS CHIEF PLT AND BY CHANCE ANOTHER PLT WAS PRESENT WHO HAD HAD A RUN IN WITH FAA. IT SEEMS THAT COMPANY POLICY DIFFERS FROM FAA REGS AND ONCE THE FLT RETURNED TO LAND A 'NEW' SCHEDULE WAS IN PROGRESS. HE VIOLATED NO FAR. HIS CONCERN WHEN HE ENDED FLT AND REALIZED THE ADDED TIME WAS FOR SCHEDULING PROPER REST TIME WITHOUT WHICH HE WOULD HAVE VIOLATED FARS. RPTR SAID CREW WAS LULLED INTO PLAYING CATCH UP ALL DAY WITH DELAYS AND DID NOT REALIZE THEY WERE SO BEYOND FLT TIME. CHIEF PLT RECOMMENDED THE RPT BE SENT TO ASRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.