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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 267612 |
Time | |
Date | 199404 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sna |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1800 msl bound upper : 1800 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sna |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other cruise other |
Flight Plan | None |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : straight in |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 3900 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 267612 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | instruction : instructor oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac non adherence : far other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : exited adverse environment |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 400 vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We had left fullerton airport for our pm session of traffic watch. It was my third day of training in this aircraft for traffic reporting. The training CFI was the pilot that did this before me. I was asked to follow certain freeways. This led to us following the 5 and 55 freeway. Our request with sna advisories was approved and we were assigned a squawk code. We were in radar contact. At that time the sky was clear (below the 3000 ft ceiling!) as we approached the 55 freeway we turned right along the 55 freeway. As we raised our wing we could see an aircraft approaching from the left on the sna localizer. We increased power a little so we could maneuver away from him. At this time the controller reported the traffic for us. We told him we had him in sight and that we would keep our separation from him. We were never very close but close enough for us to show up on the airliner's TCASII. He never had us in sight and might have worried a lot due to the TCASII signal. Apparently he had called the controling agency, asking what had happened and why we were there. We were told to call the agency after we landed. The training CFI called the supervisor and had explained the situation. We stayed west of the 55 freeway all the time. I wish the controller had warned us earlier to avoid this situation since we were on a squawk code in radar contact. Now that I have been assigned as the full time traffic watch pilot I keep an extra margin of safety in the distance between me and the localizer. Not only at sna but at all class C airports. I will train the future pilots for traffic watch to do the same. More outside scan can't hurt either. The pilots of the b- 737 airliner probably couldn't see us because of the low sun position behind us. My procedure has been a great success in safety so I will continue to stay a little bit more away from the localizer. One more thing. When I wrote increased power to maneuver away it means away for more separation. We were never in his course or altitude. It is a natural reaction to do so. Like I said, we had him in sight, even before the controller advised us of his presence. Supplemental information from acn 267613: we were cleared for an ILS to runway 19R after being vectored for approach. On GS and localizer. Were told cessna had us in sight and was to follow us for an approach to runway 19L. We had not seen him. Got TCASII alert and observed the cessna at our altitude and a little right of our course on a heading that would cross our path. Pushed aircraft over to increase distance and made normal landing. The mix of VFR and IFR small aircraft and jets using parallel approach so close together in marginal visibility is, in my opinion, a very dangerous situation. Ground personnel advised me that they hear pilots complaining all the time of near miss sits, especially in low visibility, at this airport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NMAC.
Narrative: WE HAD LEFT FULLERTON ARPT FOR OUR PM SESSION OF TFC WATCH. IT WAS MY THIRD DAY OF TRAINING IN THIS ACFT FOR TFC RPTING. THE TRAINING CFI WAS THE PLT THAT DID THIS BEFORE ME. I WAS ASKED TO FOLLOW CERTAIN FREEWAYS. THIS LED TO US FOLLOWING THE 5 AND 55 FREEWAY. OUR REQUEST WITH SNA ADVISORIES WAS APPROVED AND WE WERE ASSIGNED A SQUAWK CODE. WE WERE IN RADAR CONTACT. AT THAT TIME THE SKY WAS CLR (BELOW THE 3000 FT CEILING!) AS WE APCHED THE 55 FREEWAY WE TURNED R ALONG THE 55 FREEWAY. AS WE RAISED OUR WING WE COULD SEE AN ACFT APCHING FROM THE L ON THE SNA LOC. WE INCREASED PWR A LITTLE SO WE COULD MANEUVER AWAY FROM HIM. AT THIS TIME THE CTLR RPTED THE TFC FOR US. WE TOLD HIM WE HAD HIM IN SIGHT AND THAT WE WOULD KEEP OUR SEPARATION FROM HIM. WE WERE NEVER VERY CLOSE BUT CLOSE ENOUGH FOR US TO SHOW UP ON THE AIRLINER'S TCASII. HE NEVER HAD US IN SIGHT AND MIGHT HAVE WORRIED A LOT DUE TO THE TCASII SIGNAL. APPARENTLY HE HAD CALLED THE CTLING AGENCY, ASKING WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND WHY WE WERE THERE. WE WERE TOLD TO CALL THE AGENCY AFTER WE LANDED. THE TRAINING CFI CALLED THE SUPVR AND HAD EXPLAINED THE SIT. WE STAYED W OF THE 55 FREEWAY ALL THE TIME. I WISH THE CTLR HAD WARNED US EARLIER TO AVOID THIS SIT SINCE WE WERE ON A SQUAWK CODE IN RADAR CONTACT. NOW THAT I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED AS THE FULL TIME TFC WATCH PLT I KEEP AN EXTRA MARGIN OF SAFETY IN THE DISTANCE BTWN ME AND THE LOC. NOT ONLY AT SNA BUT AT ALL CLASS C ARPTS. I WILL TRAIN THE FUTURE PLTS FOR TFC WATCH TO DO THE SAME. MORE OUTSIDE SCAN CAN'T HURT EITHER. THE PLTS OF THE B- 737 AIRLINER PROBABLY COULDN'T SEE US BECAUSE OF THE LOW SUN POS BEHIND US. MY PROC HAS BEEN A GREAT SUCCESS IN SAFETY SO I WILL CONTINUE TO STAY A LITTLE BIT MORE AWAY FROM THE LOC. ONE MORE THING. WHEN I WROTE INCREASED PWR TO MANEUVER AWAY IT MEANS AWAY FOR MORE SEPARATION. WE WERE NEVER IN HIS COURSE OR ALT. IT IS A NATURAL REACTION TO DO SO. LIKE I SAID, WE HAD HIM IN SIGHT, EVEN BEFORE THE CTLR ADVISED US OF HIS PRESENCE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 267613: WE WERE CLRED FOR AN ILS TO RWY 19R AFTER BEING VECTORED FOR APCH. ON GS AND LOC. WERE TOLD CESSNA HAD US IN SIGHT AND WAS TO FOLLOW US FOR AN APCH TO RWY 19L. WE HAD NOT SEEN HIM. GOT TCASII ALERT AND OBSERVED THE CESSNA AT OUR ALT AND A LITTLE R OF OUR COURSE ON A HDG THAT WOULD CROSS OUR PATH. PUSHED ACFT OVER TO INCREASE DISTANCE AND MADE NORMAL LNDG. THE MIX OF VFR AND IFR SMALL ACFT AND JETS USING PARALLEL APCH SO CLOSE TOGETHER IN MARGINAL VISIBILITY IS, IN MY OPINION, A VERY DANGEROUS SIT. GND PERSONNEL ADVISED ME THAT THEY HEAR PLTS COMPLAINING ALL THE TIME OF NEAR MISS SITS, ESPECIALLY IN LOW VISIBILITY, AT THIS ARPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.