37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 268843 |
Time | |
Date | 199404 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : sie |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 29000 msl bound upper : 29000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc tower : mco |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-8 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 268843 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 35 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 268481 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation other |
Narrative:
While operating flight from sdf to jfk, while talking to ZDC we were give a descent from FL370 to FL290. After descending to FL290, some time had passed and we asked for lower, ZDC said she had been trying to call us. (Note all 3 crew members were wearing headsets and monitoring the frequency and we never heard a call.) she gave us FL190 and handed us to another ZDC frequency. When we checked in with them, they said they had been trying to call us for 50 to 60 mi. We told them we had just been give their frequency. They told us to contact ZNY. We called ZNY and they gave us clearance to cross camrn intersection at 11000 ft. We started down and after a short time, we advised ZNY we would not make the crossing at 11000 ft. After a short time, she gave us ny approach and told us to do our best during the descent. We contacted ny approach and they said to keep our speed up to help our descent and also gave us vectors to help. We told approach we were sorry for the inconvenience and they said no problem. They were not busy at this time of the morning. Supplemental information from acn 268481. He ended up vectoring us in a 360 degree circle to give us time to get down. No other traffic was affected. I think the problem arose in ZDC thinking they switched us to another frequency and forgot about us (early in morning, tired). Not being familiar with procedures or handling, we probably waited too long to ask for descent. As close as we were, we couldn't make the altitude restrs on the SID. Factors were: time of morning, unfamiliar with ZDC switching tailwind on descent. Switching radios 3 times in less than 1 min. Corrective actions: good radio discipline, making sure of radio calls with reply. Requesting sooner descent on part of crew (situational awareness). In regards to distances being cut going direct, tailwinds aircraft performance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: POSSIBLE OPDEV IN FREQ CHANGE LATE.
Narrative: WHILE OPERATING FLT FROM SDF TO JFK, WHILE TALKING TO ZDC WE WERE GIVE A DSCNT FROM FL370 TO FL290. AFTER DSNDING TO FL290, SOME TIME HAD PASSED AND WE ASKED FOR LOWER, ZDC SAID SHE HAD BEEN TRYING TO CALL US. (NOTE ALL 3 CREW MEMBERS WERE WEARING HEADSETS AND MONITORING THE FREQ AND WE NEVER HEARD A CALL.) SHE GAVE US FL190 AND HANDED US TO ANOTHER ZDC FREQ. WHEN WE CHKED IN WITH THEM, THEY SAID THEY HAD BEEN TRYING TO CALL US FOR 50 TO 60 MI. WE TOLD THEM WE HAD JUST BEEN GIVE THEIR FREQ. THEY TOLD US TO CONTACT ZNY. WE CALLED ZNY AND THEY GAVE US CLRNC TO CROSS CAMRN INTXN AT 11000 FT. WE STARTED DOWN AND AFTER A SHORT TIME, WE ADVISED ZNY WE WOULD NOT MAKE THE XING AT 11000 FT. AFTER A SHORT TIME, SHE GAVE US NY APCH AND TOLD US TO DO OUR BEST DURING THE DSCNT. WE CONTACTED NY APCH AND THEY SAID TO KEEP OUR SPD UP TO HELP OUR DSCNT AND ALSO GAVE US VECTORS TO HELP. WE TOLD APCH WE WERE SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE AND THEY SAID NO PROB. THEY WERE NOT BUSY AT THIS TIME OF THE MORNING. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 268481. HE ENDED UP VECTORING US IN A 360 DEG CIRCLE TO GIVE US TIME TO GET DOWN. NO OTHER TFC WAS AFFECTED. I THINK THE PROB AROSE IN ZDC THINKING THEY SWITCHED US TO ANOTHER FREQ AND FORGOT ABOUT US (EARLY IN MORNING, TIRED). NOT BEING FAMILIAR WITH PROCS OR HANDLING, WE PROBABLY WAITED TOO LONG TO ASK FOR DSCNT. AS CLOSE AS WE WERE, WE COULDN'T MAKE THE ALT RESTRS ON THE SID. FACTORS WERE: TIME OF MORNING, UNFAMILIAR WITH ZDC SWITCHING TAILWIND ON DSCNT. SWITCHING RADIOS 3 TIMES IN LESS THAN 1 MIN. CORRECTIVE ACTIONS: GOOD RADIO DISCIPLINE, MAKING SURE OF RADIO CALLS WITH REPLY. REQUESTING SOONER DSCNT ON PART OF CREW (SITUATIONAL AWARENESS). IN REGARDS TO DISTANCES BEING CUT GOING DIRECT, TAILWINDS ACFT PERFORMANCE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.