37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 268993 |
Time | |
Date | 199404 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : sdz |
State Reference | NC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 14000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-88 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : zdc |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 180 |
ASRS Report | 268993 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 187 flight time total : 3870 flight time type : 1788 |
ASRS Report | 268990 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : investigated |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 20000 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight atl to rdu buzzy arrival. We were cleared to cross tenni intersection at FL210. We had leveled at 210 when ZDC cleared us 'descend to 14000 ft, expect buzzy at 11000 ft.' since we were not at top of descent, I told the first officer to find out if they wanted us to descend now. The controller said descend to 14000 ft at our discretion and expect buzzy at 11000 ft. He then pointed out traffic at our 9 O'clock low. I acknowledged with contact. We were rapidly passing by the traffic far below us. While I was being shown and acknowledging the traffic, center debated the speed restr at buzzy at 11000 ft. This is where things become vague for me. Because of the speed deletion at 11000 ft I became convinced that we were cleared to 11000 ft. 11000 ft was in the altitude window, and I changed the speed restr in the FMC from 250/11000 to 11000 no speed restr. I remained in the descent with all intentions of crossing buzzy at 11000 ft. At plus or minus 13500 ft center called to ask our altitude. We told him we were passing 12500 for 11000 ft. He said our clearance had been to 14000 ft, expect 11000 ft at buzzy. We said we were going back to 14000 ft, he said to just stay at 11000 ft. I requested a phone number and called him on the ground. He said that we had passed 3.7 mi and 700 ft from the commuter. I told him that I didn't know why I thought we were cleared to 11000 ft that I was vague about the events. I apologized for any trouble. We also discussed the fact that the commuter had us in sight and that I also had contact. The main reason I think all the confusion arose was center's intent to tell us what was going to happen up the road and having to tell us in several xmissions that mentioned altitudes and confused us to think we had been cleared. Supplemental information from acn 268990: just past tenni intersection, ZDC issued clearance to descend to 14000 ft and expect buzzy at 11000 ft. The captain asked me (first officer) to request pilot's discretion to 14000 ft for fuel considerations. ZDC issued a revised clearance of pilot's discretion to 14000 ft, expect buzzy at 11000 ft and to delete the 250 KT published speed restr at buzzy. The captain became busy deleting the speed restr from the FMS while I made a PA announcement concerning our arrival time into rdu. Upon completion of the PA, and at approximately FL190, the captain called for the descent checklist. During the reading of that checklist, center advised us of traffic low and to our left. After completion of the descent checklist I advised the captain I would be switching radios to monitor ATIS (earlier attempts had failed due to interference). Upon advising the captain of the latest field conditions a short discussion (20 seconds) about requesting opposite direction traffic pattern for fuel savings took place. It was at this time that center called to confirm we were leveling at 14000 ft. My altimeter indicated approximately 13500 ft and vvi was 3000 FPM and the altitude select window showed 11000 ft. We understood we were cleared buzzy at 11000 ft. Center responded with 'no, you were cleared for 14000 ft.' both pilots were confused by the 'expect' altitude, but we did not verbalize this confusion to each other or ATC. Other activities in the cockpit led to crew coordination breakdown and the setting of 11000 ft in the altitude limit instead of 14000 ft. Buzzy is published at 11000 ft -- the 'expect' altitude repented more than once only reinforced in our minds that 11000 ft was our clearance limit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALT BUST. RPTR ERROR ADMITTED.
Narrative: FLT ATL TO RDU BUZZY ARR. WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS TENNI INTXN AT FL210. WE HAD LEVELED AT 210 WHEN ZDC CLRED US 'DSND TO 14000 FT, EXPECT BUZZY AT 11000 FT.' SINCE WE WERE NOT AT TOP OF DSCNT, I TOLD THE FO TO FIND OUT IF THEY WANTED US TO DSND NOW. THE CTLR SAID DSND TO 14000 FT AT OUR DISCRETION AND EXPECT BUZZY AT 11000 FT. HE THEN POINTED OUT TFC AT OUR 9 O'CLOCK LOW. I ACKNOWLEDGED WITH CONTACT. WE WERE RAPIDLY PASSING BY THE TFC FAR BELOW US. WHILE I WAS BEING SHOWN AND ACKNOWLEDGING THE TFC, CTR DEBATED THE SPD RESTR AT BUZZY AT 11000 FT. THIS IS WHERE THINGS BECOME VAGUE FOR ME. BECAUSE OF THE SPD DELETION AT 11000 FT I BECAME CONVINCED THAT WE WERE CLRED TO 11000 FT. 11000 FT WAS IN THE ALT WINDOW, AND I CHANGED THE SPD RESTR IN THE FMC FROM 250/11000 TO 11000 NO SPD RESTR. I REMAINED IN THE DSCNT WITH ALL INTENTIONS OF XING BUZZY AT 11000 FT. AT PLUS OR MINUS 13500 FT CTR CALLED TO ASK OUR ALT. WE TOLD HIM WE WERE PASSING 12500 FOR 11000 FT. HE SAID OUR CLRNC HAD BEEN TO 14000 FT, EXPECT 11000 FT AT BUZZY. WE SAID WE WERE GOING BACK TO 14000 FT, HE SAID TO JUST STAY AT 11000 FT. I REQUESTED A PHONE NUMBER AND CALLED HIM ON THE GND. HE SAID THAT WE HAD PASSED 3.7 MI AND 700 FT FROM THE COMMUTER. I TOLD HIM THAT I DIDN'T KNOW WHY I THOUGHT WE WERE CLRED TO 11000 FT THAT I WAS VAGUE ABOUT THE EVENTS. I APOLOGIZED FOR ANY TROUBLE. WE ALSO DISCUSSED THE FACT THAT THE COMMUTER HAD US IN SIGHT AND THAT I ALSO HAD CONTACT. THE MAIN REASON I THINK ALL THE CONFUSION AROSE WAS CTR'S INTENT TO TELL US WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN UP THE ROAD AND HAVING TO TELL US IN SEVERAL XMISSIONS THAT MENTIONED ALTS AND CONFUSED US TO THINK WE HAD BEEN CLRED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 268990: JUST PAST TENNI INTXN, ZDC ISSUED CLRNC TO DSND TO 14000 FT AND EXPECT BUZZY AT 11000 FT. THE CAPT ASKED ME (FO) TO REQUEST PLT'S DISCRETION TO 14000 FT FOR FUEL CONSIDERATIONS. ZDC ISSUED A REVISED CLRNC OF PLT'S DISCRETION TO 14000 FT, EXPECT BUZZY AT 11000 FT AND TO DELETE THE 250 KT PUBLISHED SPD RESTR AT BUZZY. THE CAPT BECAME BUSY DELETING THE SPD RESTR FROM THE FMS WHILE I MADE A PA ANNOUNCEMENT CONCERNING OUR ARR TIME INTO RDU. UPON COMPLETION OF THE PA, AND AT APPROX FL190, THE CAPT CALLED FOR THE DSCNT CHKLIST. DURING THE READING OF THAT CHKLIST, CTR ADVISED US OF TFC LOW AND TO OUR L. AFTER COMPLETION OF THE DSCNT CHKLIST I ADVISED THE CAPT I WOULD BE SWITCHING RADIOS TO MONITOR ATIS (EARLIER ATTEMPTS HAD FAILED DUE TO INTERFERENCE). UPON ADVISING THE CAPT OF THE LATEST FIELD CONDITIONS A SHORT DISCUSSION (20 SECONDS) ABOUT REQUESTING OPPOSITE DIRECTION TFC PATTERN FOR FUEL SAVINGS TOOK PLACE. IT WAS AT THIS TIME THAT CTR CALLED TO CONFIRM WE WERE LEVELING AT 14000 FT. MY ALTIMETER INDICATED APPROX 13500 FT AND VVI WAS 3000 FPM AND THE ALT SELECT WINDOW SHOWED 11000 FT. WE UNDERSTOOD WE WERE CLRED BUZZY AT 11000 FT. CTR RESPONDED WITH 'NO, YOU WERE CLRED FOR 14000 FT.' BOTH PLTS WERE CONFUSED BY THE 'EXPECT' ALT, BUT WE DID NOT VERBALIZE THIS CONFUSION TO EACH OTHER OR ATC. OTHER ACTIVITIES IN THE COCKPIT LED TO CREW COORD BREAKDOWN AND THE SETTING OF 11000 FT IN THE ALT LIMIT INSTEAD OF 14000 FT. BUZZY IS PUBLISHED AT 11000 FT -- THE 'EXPECT' ALT REPENTED MORE THAN ONCE ONLY REINFORCED IN OUR MINDS THAT 11000 FT WAS OUR CLRNC LIMIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.