Flight crew of an air carrier large transport landed at dusk when the runway edge lights were not il...

Attributes
ACN	273979
Time
Date	199406
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : ord
State Reference	IL
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : ord
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	landing other
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 3000
ASRS Report	273979
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Airport
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Flying visual approach using ILS backup, to runway 4R at O'hare. Checked on with tower on the radio at rekks FAF and were cleared to land. We could see aircraft ahead of us on approach and the runway, although edge lights were very low, or appeared to be. As we descended through 500 ft AGL the aircraft ahead of us told tower the runway edge lights were off. Tower said their indications were they were on. We were advised of the report and we responded that we could see the runway fine and then landed. The time was 32 mins after official sunset which we looked up later. We never doubted the safety of the approach and landing, and only had a few seconds from 500 ft to landing to decide the legality of no lights, so we landed uneventfully. We talked to several instructors at our company training department and no one could find out the legal answer, and my own review of far and aim finds no specific mention of landing without runway lights. The captain's comment to me was interesting. He said he'd never seen that happen in 30 yrs of flying, and that I'd probably never see it again. Even so, I'd like to know.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC OF AN ACR LGT LANDED AT DUSK WHEN THE RWY EDGE LIGHTS WERE NOT ILLUMINATED.

Narrative: FLYING VISUAL APCH USING ILS BACKUP, TO RWY 4R AT O'HARE. CHKED ON WITH TWR ON THE RADIO AT REKKS FAF AND WERE CLRED TO LAND. WE COULD SEE ACFT AHEAD OF US ON APCH AND THE RWY, ALTHOUGH EDGE LIGHTS WERE VERY LOW, OR APPEARED TO BE. AS WE DSNDED THROUGH 500 FT AGL THE ACFT AHEAD OF US TOLD TWR THE RWY EDGE LIGHTS WERE OFF. TWR SAID THEIR INDICATIONS WERE THEY WERE ON. WE WERE ADVISED OF THE RPT AND WE RESPONDED THAT WE COULD SEE THE RWY FINE AND THEN LANDED. THE TIME WAS 32 MINS AFTER OFFICIAL SUNSET WHICH WE LOOKED UP LATER. WE NEVER DOUBTED THE SAFETY OF THE APCH AND LNDG, AND ONLY HAD A FEW SECONDS FROM 500 FT TO LNDG TO DECIDE THE LEGALITY OF NO LIGHTS, SO WE LANDED UNEVENTFULLY. WE TALKED TO SEVERAL INSTRUCTORS AT OUR COMPANY TRAINING DEPT AND NO ONE COULD FIND OUT THE LEGAL ANSWER, AND MY OWN REVIEW OF FAR AND AIM FINDS NO SPECIFIC MENTION OF LNDG WITHOUT RWY LIGHTS. THE CAPT'S COMMENT TO ME WAS INTERESTING. HE SAID HE'D NEVER SEEN THAT HAPPEN IN 30 YRS OF FLYING, AND THAT I'D PROBABLY NEVER SEE IT AGAIN. EVEN SO, I'D LIKE TO KNOW.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Flight crew of an air carrier large transport landed at dusk when the runway edge lights were not illuminated.