37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 290027 |
Time | |
Date | 199411 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lga |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 tower : lga |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 25000 |
ASRS Report | 290027 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Air carrier X was approaching lga from bos on a visual approach to runway 13 with a right turn to land on runway 13. We were on a heading of 220 degrees at 3000 ft and were cleared for a visual and instructed by new york approach to maintain 2500 ft till our base to final turn. The heading we were on would cause us to intercept the extended centerline of runway 13 approximately 3-4 mi from the approach end and at that distance we should be at 1200 to 900 ft AGL. It was clearly impossible to maintain 2500 ft till that point and execute a normal or even safe approach. We therefore turned left slightly to increase the distance from the end of runway 13 before we started our turn to final. We then began a shallow turn to final and a slow descent. Lga tower at this time queried us if we were instructed to maintain an altitude till base to final turn and we responded that we were in a slow turn and at 1900 ft descending. We also told tower that the clearance as previously issued precluded a safe approach. This clearance is common at lga and controllers should be advised of the 3:1 rule in dscnts.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X NON ADHERENCE TO ATC CLRNC EARLY DSCNT WHILE ON VISUAL APCH. ALTDEV.
Narrative: ACR X WAS APCHING LGA FROM BOS ON A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 13 WITH A R TURN TO LAND ON RWY 13. WE WERE ON A HDG OF 220 DEGS AT 3000 FT AND WERE CLRED FOR A VISUAL AND INSTRUCTED BY NEW YORK APCH TO MAINTAIN 2500 FT TILL OUR BASE TO FINAL TURN. THE HDG WE WERE ON WOULD CAUSE US TO INTERCEPT THE EXTENDED CTRLINE OF RWY 13 APPROX 3-4 MI FROM THE APCH END AND AT THAT DISTANCE WE SHOULD BE AT 1200 TO 900 FT AGL. IT WAS CLRLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MAINTAIN 2500 FT TILL THAT POINT AND EXECUTE A NORMAL OR EVEN SAFE APCH. WE THEREFORE TURNED L SLIGHTLY TO INCREASE THE DISTANCE FROM THE END OF RWY 13 BEFORE WE STARTED OUR TURN TO FINAL. WE THEN BEGAN A SHALLOW TURN TO FINAL AND A SLOW DSCNT. LGA TWR AT THIS TIME QUERIED US IF WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO MAINTAIN AN ALT TILL BASE TO FINAL TURN AND WE RESPONDED THAT WE WERE IN A SLOW TURN AND AT 1900 FT DSNDING. WE ALSO TOLD TWR THAT THE CLRNC AS PREVIOUSLY ISSUED PRECLUDED A SAFE APCH. THIS CLRNC IS COMMON AT LGA AND CTLRS SHOULD BE ADVISED OF THE 3:1 RULE IN DSCNTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.