37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 291759 |
Time | |
Date | 199412 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : phx |
State Reference | AZ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zab tracon : phx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 18000 |
ASRS Report | 291759 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 2800 |
ASRS Report | 291934 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Route: las-phx. Time: approximately XX30 MST. Clearance karlo 5 arrival, cross plsnt intersection at 12000 ft and 250 KTS cas. We were descending at 320 KTS cas on the karlo 5 arrival. ZAB queried us at approximately 40 NM from phx as to our speed. We were slowing at that time at 12000 ft to meet the restr at pleasant intersection. At 73 mi our speed was 260 KTS cas. Just prior to pleasant intersection ZAB issued a 360 degree turn to the left. Our speed at that time was 250 KTS cas. We were told by center that approach was not taking the handoff. After some vectoring we rejoined the arrival and were handed off to phx approach control on frequency 128.65. The first officer asked approach why the turn approach stated on the frequency that we were going 60 KTS too fast and then asked us to call them when we got on the ground. Another carrier (also on the frequency) stated he had same problem with speed with approach control. We finally landed at XX43 MST on runway 8L at phx. I called approach per their request and talked with a supervisor who said the aircraft in front of us was doing 320 KTS ground speed and aircraft behind us was doing 320 KTS gndspd over pleasant while we were doing 360 KTS gndspd. He stated we were 40 KTS too fast. He decided not to accept us based on this ground speed information. This resulted in a turn off the arrival and approximately a 5 min delay. I did not get the idea that there was a traffic conflict but a problem with speed which resulted in a turn and vectoring. I believe the confusion resulted from our calibrated airspeed over pleasant of 250 KTS and approach's gndspd readout.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR SPD.
Narrative: RTE: LAS-PHX. TIME: APPROX XX30 MST. CLRNC KARLO 5 ARR, CROSS PLSNT INTXN AT 12000 FT AND 250 KTS CAS. WE WERE DSNDING AT 320 KTS CAS ON THE KARLO 5 ARR. ZAB QUERIED US AT APPROX 40 NM FROM PHX AS TO OUR SPD. WE WERE SLOWING AT THAT TIME AT 12000 FT TO MEET THE RESTR AT PLEASANT INTXN. AT 73 MI OUR SPD WAS 260 KTS CAS. JUST PRIOR TO PLEASANT INTXN ZAB ISSUED A 360 DEG TURN TO THE L. OUR SPD AT THAT TIME WAS 250 KTS CAS. WE WERE TOLD BY CTR THAT APCH WAS NOT TAKING THE HDOF. AFTER SOME VECTORING WE REJOINED THE ARR AND WERE HANDED OFF TO PHX APCH CTL ON FREQ 128.65. THE FO ASKED APCH WHY THE TURN APCH STATED ON THE FREQ THAT WE WERE GOING 60 KTS TOO FAST AND THEN ASKED US TO CALL THEM WHEN WE GOT ON THE GND. ANOTHER CARRIER (ALSO ON THE FREQ) STATED HE HAD SAME PROB WITH SPD WITH APCH CTL. WE FINALLY LANDED AT XX43 MST ON RWY 8L AT PHX. I CALLED APCH PER THEIR REQUEST AND TALKED WITH A SUPVR WHO SAID THE ACFT IN FRONT OF US WAS DOING 320 KTS GND SPD AND ACFT BEHIND US WAS DOING 320 KTS GNDSPD OVER PLEASANT WHILE WE WERE DOING 360 KTS GNDSPD. HE STATED WE WERE 40 KTS TOO FAST. HE DECIDED NOT TO ACCEPT US BASED ON THIS GND SPD INFO. THIS RESULTED IN A TURN OFF THE ARR AND APPROX A 5 MIN DELAY. I DID NOT GET THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS A TFC CONFLICT BUT A PROB WITH SPD WHICH RESULTED IN A TURN AND VECTORING. I BELIEVE THE CONFUSION RESULTED FROM OUR CALIBRATED AIRSPD OVER PLEASANT OF 250 KTS AND APCH'S GNDSPD READOUT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.