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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 293623 |
Time | |
Date | 199501 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : eggx |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 35000 msl bound upper : 35000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : eggx |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : other oceanic |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 23000 flight time type : 1920 |
ASRS Report | 293623 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Air carrier X departed paris orly to phl field nat J which began at 4808N, the transition to the nat system was from french airspace under brest control. Clearance from shanwick oceanic was obtained approximately 45 mins prior to track entry. At that time our cruise altitude was FL350 and the request was for track J FL350 mach .80. The clearance was received, read back, and acknowledged. Our changeover to shanwick by brest was very casual and we requested a changeover about 25 mi from 4808N. At 4808N we made our first position report. Approximately 12 mins later we received and answered a shanwick SELCAL. Shanwick gave us an immediate descent to FL330. After the descent we requested the reason. 10 mins later the reply was that because of various other aircraft reestimating there was not sufficient longitudinal separation on the track. 2 hours later at 30 degrees west we requested and received clearance back to FL350. 1) I feel there should be more coordination between brest and shanwick in this area. At times we are changed to shanwick without being given a frequency. 2) there is great emphasis placed on track changes, ie, if given a track other than the one requested all coordinates of the new track must be read back to clearance. When receiving the filed track this is not required. I believe just as much emphasis should be placed on new altitudes, ie, 'FL330 not available, you are cleared FL310.' normally no emphasis at all is placed on an altitude change unless it is higher and the question becomes, can you maintain the higher altitude?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X ON OCEANIC RTE HAD ALT CHANGE TO AVOID CONFLICT LTSS.
Narrative: ACR X DEPARTED PARIS ORLY TO PHL FIELD NAT J WHICH BEGAN AT 4808N, THE TRANSITION TO THE NAT SYS WAS FROM FRENCH AIRSPACE UNDER BREST CTL. CLRNC FROM SHANWICK OCEANIC WAS OBTAINED APPROX 45 MINS PRIOR TO TRACK ENTRY. AT THAT TIME OUR CRUISE ALT WAS FL350 AND THE REQUEST WAS FOR TRACK J FL350 MACH .80. THE CLRNC WAS RECEIVED, READ BACK, AND ACKNOWLEDGED. OUR CHANGEOVER TO SHANWICK BY BREST WAS VERY CASUAL AND WE REQUESTED A CHANGEOVER ABOUT 25 MI FROM 4808N. AT 4808N WE MADE OUR FIRST POS RPT. APPROX 12 MINS LATER WE RECEIVED AND ANSWERED A SHANWICK SELCAL. SHANWICK GAVE US AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT TO FL330. AFTER THE DSCNT WE REQUESTED THE REASON. 10 MINS LATER THE REPLY WAS THAT BECAUSE OF VARIOUS OTHER ACFT REESTIMATING THERE WAS NOT SUFFICIENT LONGITUDINAL SEPARATION ON THE TRACK. 2 HRS LATER AT 30 DEGS W WE REQUESTED AND RECEIVED CLRNC BACK TO FL350. 1) I FEEL THERE SHOULD BE MORE COORD BTWN BREST AND SHANWICK IN THIS AREA. AT TIMES WE ARE CHANGED TO SHANWICK WITHOUT BEING GIVEN A FREQ. 2) THERE IS GREAT EMPHASIS PLACED ON TRACK CHANGES, IE, IF GIVEN A TRACK OTHER THAN THE ONE REQUESTED ALL COORDINATES OF THE NEW TRACK MUST BE READ BACK TO CLRNC. WHEN RECEIVING THE FILED TRACK THIS IS NOT REQUIRED. I BELIEVE JUST AS MUCH EMPHASIS SHOULD BE PLACED ON NEW ALTS, IE, 'FL330 NOT AVAILABLE, YOU ARE CLRED FL310.' NORMALLY NO EMPHASIS AT ALL IS PLACED ON AN ALT CHANGE UNLESS IT IS HIGHER AND THE QUESTION BECOMES, CAN YOU MAINTAIN THE HIGHER ALT?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.