37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 297512 |
Time | |
Date | 199502 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : clt |
State Reference | NC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1000 msl bound upper : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : clt tower : clt |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 8100 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 297512 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were taxied into position and hold after our company aircraft began its takeoff roll. Controller asked if we could maintain visual separation with departing company aircraft. We had him in sight and WX was excellent. We confirmed we could. We were cleared for takeoff. On runway 18R we were to maintain runway heading to 1.6 DME then right turn to 200 degrees. After takeoff at approximately 800 ft AGL, tower handed us off to departure. Departure asked if we had aircraft in sight and we advised we did at about 11:30 position as we started our turn to 200 degrees. Departure then advised they were turning aircraft ahead of us to a heading of 290 degrees. That put the aircraft almost 90 degrees from our flight path and closing. I'm not sure how far away he was and at night although he was in plain view at all times it is tough to gauge distance. A traffic conflict was not a concern, however, maintaining required separation was. No concern was voiced by the controller but both the captain and I felt it was unwise in the future to accept visual separation at night, even in clear conditions, due to inability to judge distances. I feel the controller's actions could also have been handled better. We were both being given west headings after takeoff and if he had turned us to a west heading prior to the aircraft in front of us, no conflict would have been possible. My policy from now on is not to accept visual separation on night takeoffs as it is too difficult to judge distances and no assurance of aircraft speed or direction on the traffic you are following.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC CONCERN OVER VISUAL SEPARATION AT NIGHT.
Narrative: WE WERE TAXIED INTO POS AND HOLD AFTER OUR COMPANY ACFT BEGAN ITS TKOF ROLL. CTLR ASKED IF WE COULD MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION WITH DEPARTING COMPANY ACFT. WE HAD HIM IN SIGHT AND WX WAS EXCELLENT. WE CONFIRMED WE COULD. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. ON RWY 18R WE WERE TO MAINTAIN RWY HDG TO 1.6 DME THEN R TURN TO 200 DEGS. AFTER TKOF AT APPROX 800 FT AGL, TWR HANDED US OFF TO DEP. DEP ASKED IF WE HAD ACFT IN SIGHT AND WE ADVISED WE DID AT ABOUT 11:30 POS AS WE STARTED OUR TURN TO 200 DEGS. DEP THEN ADVISED THEY WERE TURNING ACFT AHEAD OF US TO A HDG OF 290 DEGS. THAT PUT THE ACFT ALMOST 90 DEGS FROM OUR FLT PATH AND CLOSING. I'M NOT SURE HOW FAR AWAY HE WAS AND AT NIGHT ALTHOUGH HE WAS IN PLAIN VIEW AT ALL TIMES IT IS TOUGH TO GAUGE DISTANCE. A TFC CONFLICT WAS NOT A CONCERN, HOWEVER, MAINTAINING REQUIRED SEPARATION WAS. NO CONCERN WAS VOICED BY THE CTLR BUT BOTH THE CAPT AND I FELT IT WAS UNWISE IN THE FUTURE TO ACCEPT VISUAL SEPARATION AT NIGHT, EVEN IN CLR CONDITIONS, DUE TO INABILITY TO JUDGE DISTANCES. I FEEL THE CTLR'S ACTIONS COULD ALSO HAVE BEEN HANDLED BETTER. WE WERE BOTH BEING GIVEN W HDGS AFTER TKOF AND IF HE HAD TURNED US TO A W HDG PRIOR TO THE ACFT IN FRONT OF US, NO CONFLICT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE. MY POLICY FROM NOW ON IS NOT TO ACCEPT VISUAL SEPARATION ON NIGHT TKOFS AS IT IS TOO DIFFICULT TO JUDGE DISTANCES AND NO ASSURANCE OF ACFT SPD OR DIRECTION ON THE TFC YOU ARE FOLLOWING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.