37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 300366 |
Time | |
Date | 199503 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ege |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | Citation I |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 85 flight time total : 2650 flight time type : 60 |
ASRS Report | 300366 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
Situation occurred on departure from eagle co airport (ege) eagle, co. Eagle tower gave us the following clearance: cleared via the published IFR departure procedure to kremmling VOR (rlg) maintain 16000 ft. Expect higher in 10 mins after departure. We departed runway 25 and began the published IFR departure procedure which calls for an immediate left turn to 215 degrees to 9000 ft on crossing the red table 326 degree radial then joining the red table 322 degree radial northwest. Flying that radial to intercept the kremmling VOR 231 degree radial inbound to kremmling. Everything was fine on the departure. We entered clouds at approximately 11500 ft MSL and continued the climb. Just as we were joining the kremmling 231 degree radial inbound ZDV asked us if we were doing the published departure procedure. We answered affirmative. He then came back and issued us an immediate right turn to heading 180 degrees and maintain lower altitude. We complied. The controller then asked us which departure procedure we were on because we should have been flying outbound on a snow VOR radial (radial unknown). We told the controller that we were flying the published procedure for departing runway 25 at eagle. After we had been cleared on course we called eagle tower back to clarify the clearance we were given. He confirmed that we were on the right clearance and also stated that there were some other departure procedures but they were approved for air carrier only. Evidently the controller thought we should have been on 1 of these departure procedures. An item of concern is that aircraft approaching aircraft often hold at kremmling to the west starting at 16000 ft and above. We had been cleared to 16000 ft inbound to kremmling from the west. I don't know for sure but I did hear an airlines check on the frequency at 16000 ft. He may have been entering holding at kremmling, which would have been in direct conflict with our route and altitude. After arrival at home base I called ZDV and they admitted they were in the wrong. Recommend controllers understand clrncs that have been given to an aircraft from previous controller. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated he was flying a citation 500. He was IMC when receiving the 180 vector from ARTCC. He is fairly familiar with this airport and has drawn out his own chart for the described departure. He suspects the departure routing described was about to guide him into traffic holding at rlg. He recommends there be published sids for these mountain airports. They are relatively complicated departure procedures.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DEP PROC CONFUSION EXISTS BTWN ARTCC AND PLTS AT EGE.
Narrative: SIT OCCURRED ON DEP FROM EAGLE CO ARPT (EGE) EAGLE, CO. EAGLE TWR GAVE US THE FOLLOWING CLRNC: CLRED VIA THE PUBLISHED IFR DEP PROC TO KREMMLING VOR (RLG) MAINTAIN 16000 FT. EXPECT HIGHER IN 10 MINS AFTER DEP. WE DEPARTED RWY 25 AND BEGAN THE PUBLISHED IFR DEP PROC WHICH CALLS FOR AN IMMEDIATE L TURN TO 215 DEGS TO 9000 FT ON XING THE RED TABLE 326 DEG RADIAL THEN JOINING THE RED TABLE 322 DEG RADIAL NW. FLYING THAT RADIAL TO INTERCEPT THE KREMMLING VOR 231 DEG RADIAL INBOUND TO KREMMLING. EVERYTHING WAS FINE ON THE DEP. WE ENTERED CLOUDS AT APPROX 11500 FT MSL AND CONTINUED THE CLB. JUST AS WE WERE JOINING THE KREMMLING 231 DEG RADIAL INBOUND ZDV ASKED US IF WE WERE DOING THE PUBLISHED DEP PROC. WE ANSWERED AFFIRMATIVE. HE THEN CAME BACK AND ISSUED US AN IMMEDIATE R TURN TO HDG 180 DEGS AND MAINTAIN LOWER ALT. WE COMPLIED. THE CTLR THEN ASKED US WHICH DEP PROC WE WERE ON BECAUSE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FLYING OUTBOUND ON A SNOW VOR RADIAL (RADIAL UNKNOWN). WE TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE WERE FLYING THE PUBLISHED PROC FOR DEPARTING RWY 25 AT EAGLE. AFTER WE HAD BEEN CLRED ON COURSE WE CALLED EAGLE TWR BACK TO CLARIFY THE CLRNC WE WERE GIVEN. HE CONFIRMED THAT WE WERE ON THE RIGHT CLRNC AND ALSO STATED THAT THERE WERE SOME OTHER DEP PROCS BUT THEY WERE APPROVED FOR ACR ONLY. EVIDENTLY THE CTLR THOUGHT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON 1 OF THESE DEP PROCS. AN ITEM OF CONCERN IS THAT ACFT APCHING ACFT OFTEN HOLD AT KREMMLING TO THE W STARTING AT 16000 FT AND ABOVE. WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO 16000 FT INBOUND TO KREMMLING FROM THE W. I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE BUT I DID HEAR AN AIRLINES CHK ON THE FREQ AT 16000 FT. HE MAY HAVE BEEN ENTERING HOLDING AT KREMMLING, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH OUR RTE AND ALT. AFTER ARR AT HOME BASE I CALLED ZDV AND THEY ADMITTED THEY WERE IN THE WRONG. RECOMMEND CTLRS UNDERSTAND CLRNCS THAT HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO AN ACFT FROM PREVIOUS CTLR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED HE WAS FLYING A CITATION 500. HE WAS IMC WHEN RECEIVING THE 180 VECTOR FROM ARTCC. HE IS FAIRLY FAMILIAR WITH THIS ARPT AND HAS DRAWN OUT HIS OWN CHART FOR THE DESCRIBED DEP. HE SUSPECTS THE DEP ROUTING DESCRIBED WAS ABOUT TO GUIDE HIM INTO TFC HOLDING AT RLG. HE RECOMMENDS THERE BE PUBLISHED SIDS FOR THESE MOUNTAIN ARPTS. THEY ARE RELATIVELY COMPLICATED DEP PROCS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.