37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 302771 |
Time | |
Date | 199504 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : sau airport : oak |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 20000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zoa |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 7000 |
ASRS Report | 302771 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were operating from seattle to oakland for only the second time in our lives. The week before we had an uneventful flight and we figured this one to be the same. However, some miscoms caused it to be rather interesting and somewhat frustrating. The misunderstanding all came via descent clearance -- or lack of it. We elected to remain high (FL320) until the last min in order to conserve fuel. We had no descent guidance because there is no published arrival to oakland from the north and we didn't receive any specific crossing restr the week before. So, we planned to be abeam oakland at 6000 ft and executed our descent accordingly. As we approached sausalito -- about 25 mi away and passing through FL200 at about 4500 FPM, center turned us away to the west and asked us to slow. We were never told why. Finally, after a few mins on a west heading headed out to sea, we asked what we needed in order to return towards our course. We were told that we needed to get down in order to cross sausalito 10 mi north at 7000 ft. We were told that this was the standard crossing and it was used 'everyday.' well, we certainly didn't know it and if we had, would have planned accordingly. Why weren't we given the specific clearance or at least an 'expect to cross...?' it's easy for controllers who work the same sector or the same airport day after day, to assume that we pilots know their local procedures. Unless we fly the route regularly. We don't! So, if it's not published, please inform us. We want to cooperate in a safe, smooth flowing ATC system it's in all of our interests!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG CAPT FOUND HIMSELF HIGH AND FAST.
Narrative: WE WERE OPERATING FROM SEATTLE TO OAKLAND FOR ONLY THE SECOND TIME IN OUR LIVES. THE WK BEFORE WE HAD AN UNEVENTFUL FLT AND WE FIGURED THIS ONE TO BE THE SAME. HOWEVER, SOME MISCOMS CAUSED IT TO BE RATHER INTERESTING AND SOMEWHAT FRUSTRATING. THE MISUNDERSTANDING ALL CAME VIA DSCNT CLRNC -- OR LACK OF IT. WE ELECTED TO REMAIN HIGH (FL320) UNTIL THE LAST MIN IN ORDER TO CONSERVE FUEL. WE HAD NO DSCNT GUIDANCE BECAUSE THERE IS NO PUBLISHED ARR TO OAKLAND FROM THE N AND WE DIDN'T RECEIVE ANY SPECIFIC XING RESTR THE WK BEFORE. SO, WE PLANNED TO BE ABEAM OAKLAND AT 6000 FT AND EXECUTED OUR DSCNT ACCORDINGLY. AS WE APCHED SAUSALITO -- ABOUT 25 MI AWAY AND PASSING THROUGH FL200 AT ABOUT 4500 FPM, CTR TURNED US AWAY TO THE W AND ASKED US TO SLOW. WE WERE NEVER TOLD WHY. FINALLY, AFTER A FEW MINS ON A W HDG HEADED OUT TO SEA, WE ASKED WHAT WE NEEDED IN ORDER TO RETURN TOWARDS OUR COURSE. WE WERE TOLD THAT WE NEEDED TO GET DOWN IN ORDER TO CROSS SAUSALITO 10 MI N AT 7000 FT. WE WERE TOLD THAT THIS WAS THE STANDARD XING AND IT WAS USED 'EVERYDAY.' WELL, WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T KNOW IT AND IF WE HAD, WOULD HAVE PLANNED ACCORDINGLY. WHY WEREN'T WE GIVEN THE SPECIFIC CLRNC OR AT LEAST AN 'EXPECT TO CROSS...?' IT'S EASY FOR CTLRS WHO WORK THE SAME SECTOR OR THE SAME ARPT DAY AFTER DAY, TO ASSUME THAT WE PLTS KNOW THEIR LCL PROCS. UNLESS WE FLY THE RTE REGULARLY. WE DON'T! SO, IF IT'S NOT PUBLISHED, PLEASE INFORM US. WE WANT TO COOPERATE IN A SAFE, SMOOTH FLOWING ATC SYS IT'S IN ALL OF OUR INTERESTS!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.