37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 304810 |
Time | |
Date | 199505 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : dqo airport : lga |
State Reference | DE |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 13000 msl bound upper : 23000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-400 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 195 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 6000 |
ASRS Report | 304810 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 25000 flight time type : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 304503 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were on the nanci 5 arrival into lga. I am the first officer and on this flight the PNF. I was picking up the ATIS when the clearance in question was given. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the captain said that he really thinks that the controller gave the clearance as flown. He spoke to a supervisor at the center and the supervisor said that the controller was fairly new to the position and had gotten very upset concerning the event. The supervisor also said that he was having the tapes pulled for training purposes. The captain said that now that he has reviewed the STAR, he should have questioned the clearance himself as his understanding was not in keeping with the printed expectations on the plate. The aircraft that the reporter's were flying at the time was a B737-400 with fmcs, but no EFIS. Supplemental information from acn 304503: I was flying the aircraft on autoplt on the nanci 5 arrival into lga. The copilot was listening to the lga ATIS and I was flying and acknowledging clrncs. After crossing kerno at FL260, I recall receiving a clearance to cross somto at FL230 and then descend to 13000 ft. I did not question the clearance, but I recall, possibly mistakenly, that this is the clearance that I read back. I set FL230 into the FMC as the altitude at somto, and set 13000 ft into the altitude display window on the mode control panel. Just prior to reaching somto at FL230, ZDC requested our altitude and said that we had been cleared to cross somto at 13000 ft. At the same time we were given a right turn to 240 degrees and to continue down to 13000 ft. Before reaching a 240 degree heading, we were cleared to continue the right turn direct to somto and on course. We were not told of any traffic conflict nor was any conflict observed on the TCASII. On arrival at lga, I telephoned ZDC at approximately XA50 EDT at the airport I explained the occurrence and asked if there had been a traffic conflict and the person/supervisor to whom I spoke, assured me that there was not. Without trying to shift any blame, if I did misunderstand the clearance and was not complying with the controller's clearance, I would expect to be questioned on my intentions and actions prior to reaching a fix 10000 ft high.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ALTDEV XING RESTR -- ACR ENDS UP 10000 FT HIGH OVER A NAV POINT DUE TO A DISPUTED CLRNC.
Narrative: WE WERE ON THE NANCI 5 ARR INTO LGA. I AM THE FO AND ON THIS FLT THE PNF. I WAS PICKING UP THE ATIS WHEN THE CLRNC IN QUESTION WAS GIVEN. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CAPT SAID THAT HE REALLY THINKS THAT THE CTLR GAVE THE CLRNC AS FLOWN. HE SPOKE TO A SUPVR AT THE CTR AND THE SUPVR SAID THAT THE CTLR WAS FAIRLY NEW TO THE POS AND HAD GOTTEN VERY UPSET CONCERNING THE EVENT. THE SUPVR ALSO SAID THAT HE WAS HAVING THE TAPES PULLED FOR TRAINING PURPOSES. THE CAPT SAID THAT NOW THAT HE HAS REVIEWED THE STAR, HE SHOULD HAVE QUESTIONED THE CLRNC HIMSELF AS HIS UNDERSTANDING WAS NOT IN KEEPING WITH THE PRINTED EXPECTATIONS ON THE PLATE. THE ACFT THAT THE RPTR'S WERE FLYING AT THE TIME WAS A B737-400 WITH FMCS, BUT NO EFIS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 304503: I WAS FLYING THE ACFT ON AUTOPLT ON THE NANCI 5 ARR INTO LGA. THE COPLT WAS LISTENING TO THE LGA ATIS AND I WAS FLYING AND ACKNOWLEDGING CLRNCS. AFTER XING KERNO AT FL260, I RECALL RECEIVING A CLRNC TO CROSS SOMTO AT FL230 AND THEN DSND TO 13000 FT. I DID NOT QUESTION THE CLRNC, BUT I RECALL, POSSIBLY MISTAKENLY, THAT THIS IS THE CLRNC THAT I READ BACK. I SET FL230 INTO THE FMC AS THE ALT AT SOMTO, AND SET 13000 FT INTO THE ALT DISPLAY WINDOW ON THE MODE CTL PANEL. JUST PRIOR TO REACHING SOMTO AT FL230, ZDC REQUESTED OUR ALT AND SAID THAT WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO CROSS SOMTO AT 13000 FT. AT THE SAME TIME WE WERE GIVEN A R TURN TO 240 DEGS AND TO CONTINUE DOWN TO 13000 FT. BEFORE REACHING A 240 DEG HDG, WE WERE CLRED TO CONTINUE THE R TURN DIRECT TO SOMTO AND ON COURSE. WE WERE NOT TOLD OF ANY TFC CONFLICT NOR WAS ANY CONFLICT OBSERVED ON THE TCASII. ON ARR AT LGA, I TELEPHONED ZDC AT APPROX XA50 EDT AT THE ARPT I EXPLAINED THE OCCURRENCE AND ASKED IF THERE HAD BEEN A TFC CONFLICT AND THE PERSON/SUPVR TO WHOM I SPOKE, ASSURED ME THAT THERE WAS NOT. WITHOUT TRYING TO SHIFT ANY BLAME, IF I DID MISUNDERSTAND THE CLRNC AND WAS NOT COMPLYING WITH THE CTLR'S CLRNC, I WOULD EXPECT TO BE QUESTIONED ON MY INTENTIONS AND ACTIONS PRIOR TO REACHING A FIX 10000 FT HIGH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.