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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 305957 |
Time | |
Date | 199505 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sea |
State Reference | WA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2600 msl bound upper : 2600 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sea |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-8 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 4900 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 305957 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were flying north from auburn on the chins arrival coming from ykm to sea. We were cleared visual approach runway 16L to follow a company dornier behind us at 8 O'clock position going to 7 O'clock position on final for runway 16L. We were then told to maintain visual separation on an air carrier dc-8 to north at 12 O'clock position (crossing right to left from the east). The dc-8 was about to turn final for the right runway 16R. So we're heading north while directed to follow an aircraft to the south which usually isn't a problem since we would normally turn to follow. However, we extend north to avoid flying in front of the dc-8 turning final. We reduce power and drop inside his turn maintaining vertical and lateral separation staying aft of his wingline. Naturally our position relative to the dc-8 moves from his 7 O'clock position to 8 O'clock position towards 9 O'clock position as both aircraft roll out on final. The dc-8 crew observes us on their TCASII and the controller mentions our position as changing from 7 O'clock position to 8 O'clock position towards 9 O'clock position or 10 O'clock position. The mention of this apparently upsets the dc-8 crew, and discussion follows about staying behind an aircraft when maintaining visual separation. You might guess what happens next. He drops his gear, which we have yet to do with the distrs, and we move out in front. This is the very thing that each of us wanted to avoid in the first place. I spent some time on the phone over this, but didn't hear from other pilot. Talking over the phone we agreed that what's most important is that we're all aware of the chance for, and the causes of, these potential problems. Secondly, that we work together since we're all in the same boat, regardless of which seat you occupy: pilots, controller, supervisor, even company operations, etc. I'm not up on all the ASRS callback letters/reports, but this one bears mentioning. If nothing else to avoid violations. Having an first officer looking over his shoulder to maintain a visual takes him out of the cockpit away from the task in front of us (ie, landing and forward visual lookout). Further staying behind helps maintain visual separation despite the likely TCASII distraction in the adjacent aircraft. Finally when it comes to maintaining control of an aircraft it is important to realize when something is drawing your attention away from the task at hand. When an aircraft doesn't respond properly to a control input (ie, power reduction to slow) check your confign! Check your confign!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PART 135 ACR FAILS TO MAINTAIN VISUAL ON TFC WHILE MAKING PARALLEL VISUAL APCHS.
Narrative: WE WERE FLYING N FROM AUBURN ON THE CHINS ARR COMING FROM YKM TO SEA. WE WERE CLRED VISUAL APCH RWY 16L TO FOLLOW A COMPANY DORNIER BEHIND US AT 8 O'CLOCK POS GOING TO 7 O'CLOCK POS ON FINAL FOR RWY 16L. WE WERE THEN TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION ON AN ACR DC-8 TO N AT 12 O'CLOCK POS (XING R TO L FROM THE E). THE DC-8 WAS ABOUT TO TURN FINAL FOR THE R RWY 16R. SO WE'RE HDG N WHILE DIRECTED TO FOLLOW AN ACFT TO THE S WHICH USUALLY ISN'T A PROB SINCE WE WOULD NORMALLY TURN TO FOLLOW. HOWEVER, WE EXTEND N TO AVOID FLYING IN FRONT OF THE DC-8 TURNING FINAL. WE REDUCE PWR AND DROP INSIDE HIS TURN MAINTAINING VERT AND LATERAL SEPARATION STAYING AFT OF HIS WINGLINE. NATURALLY OUR POS RELATIVE TO THE DC-8 MOVES FROM HIS 7 O'CLOCK POS TO 8 O'CLOCK POS TOWARDS 9 O'CLOCK POS AS BOTH ACFT ROLL OUT ON FINAL. THE DC-8 CREW OBSERVES US ON THEIR TCASII AND THE CTLR MENTIONS OUR POS AS CHANGING FROM 7 O'CLOCK POS TO 8 O'CLOCK POS TOWARDS 9 O'CLOCK POS OR 10 O'CLOCK POS. THE MENTION OF THIS APPARENTLY UPSETS THE DC-8 CREW, AND DISCUSSION FOLLOWS ABOUT STAYING BEHIND AN ACFT WHEN MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION. YOU MIGHT GUESS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. HE DROPS HIS GEAR, WHICH WE HAVE YET TO DO WITH THE DISTRS, AND WE MOVE OUT IN FRONT. THIS IS THE VERY THING THAT EACH OF US WANTED TO AVOID IN THE FIRST PLACE. I SPENT SOME TIME ON THE PHONE OVER THIS, BUT DIDN'T HEAR FROM OTHER PLT. TALKING OVER THE PHONE WE AGREED THAT WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT WE'RE ALL AWARE OF THE CHANCE FOR, AND THE CAUSES OF, THESE POTENTIAL PROBS. SECONDLY, THAT WE WORK TOGETHER SINCE WE'RE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT, REGARDLESS OF WHICH SEAT YOU OCCUPY: PLTS, CTLR, SUPVR, EVEN COMPANY OPS, ETC. I'M NOT UP ON ALL THE ASRS CALLBACK LETTERS/RPTS, BUT THIS ONE BEARS MENTIONING. IF NOTHING ELSE TO AVOID VIOLATIONS. HAVING AN FO LOOKING OVER HIS SHOULDER TO MAINTAIN A VISUAL TAKES HIM OUT OF THE COCKPIT AWAY FROM THE TASK IN FRONT OF US (IE, LNDG AND FORWARD VISUAL LOOKOUT). FURTHER STAYING BEHIND HELPS MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION DESPITE THE LIKELY TCASII DISTR IN THE ADJACENT ACFT. FINALLY WHEN IT COMES TO MAINTAINING CTL OF AN ACFT IT IS IMPORTANT TO REALIZE WHEN SOMETHING IS DRAWING YOUR ATTN AWAY FROM THE TASK AT HAND. WHEN AN ACFT DOESN'T RESPOND PROPERLY TO A CTL INPUT (IE, PWR REDUCTION TO SLOW) CHK YOUR CONFIGN! CHK YOUR CONFIGN!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.