Narrative:

As a check pilot performing IOE on a new captain, I was responsible for allowing our aircraft to exceed the boundaries of an ATC-designated holding pattern. On a short flight between 2 major metropolitan airports in the high- density new york airspace with considerable convective activity, course deviations were the rule. In fact, we flew our route more off-course than on-course to avoid hazardous WX. Close to our destination airport, we were (ATC) held at 3 separate fixes -- all non-published, non-standard and designated by ATC to help us remain clear of all hazardous WX. Leaving the first fix for the second (closer to the airport), the clearance was somewhat unclr to my captain-candidate and me because we were told to hold 'northwest of a fix' however the pattern was on the east side of a radial that extended southeast from a VOR on which it was predicated. My student and I were confused and asked ATC for clarification which was given to our satisfaction, however the pattern was somewhat impacted by convective activity. We agreed we could make it work if the duration of the hold was short and we could progress past the cumulus cells. The hold was to be between the 5-15 mi points. Reaching the clearance limit (15 mi), we turned to reverse course to the northwest and the 5 mi limit. At 8 mi on my DME, ATC called and said that we were past our inbound clearance limit and to reverse course to stay in the pattern. That we did but with no clarification from ATC because there was absolutely no time to get a word in because of the WX and the other aircraft on the frequency. It was a very intense situation and time to do only one thing -- comply with ATC direction and reverse course! By the time we returned to the 15 mi fix, we were directed toward another holding fix and another controller. My captain trainee was busy getting alternate WX and talking to the dispatcher and trying to be the best assistant he could be considering this was his second leg on the aircraft. I do not believe there was any conflict with other aircraft nor were we made aware that a problem existed except that we exceeded the confines of our holding pattern. I honestly believe we had a good handle on the situation but what with all that was going on that afternoon, the reverse may be the case. What would I do differently next time? On odd-ball holding patterns with WX a major player, I would ask my PNF to follow me exactly with his instruments and continuously ask him if he agreed with what we were flying versus what we were cleared to fly. I allowed him to stay on getting alternate WX, talking to the dispatcher, talking to the passenger about the delay, talking with the flight attendants about the delay and talking to operations. Too much crew resource management banter and not enough paying attention to details of flying the airplane. As a check pilot, I'm bombarded with cockpit resource management which I believe has actually distracted from what's more important -- flying the airplane. Cockpit resource management is great, but it has its place. I've learned a valuable lesson.

Related reports:

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: CHK PLT AND CAPT ON IOE EXCEED HOLD LIMIT.

Narrative: AS A CHK PLT PERFORMING IOE ON A NEW CAPT, I WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ALLOWING OUR ACFT TO EXCEED THE BOUNDARIES OF AN ATC-DESIGNATED HOLDING PATTERN. ON A SHORT FLT BTWN 2 MAJOR METROPOLITAN ARPTS IN THE HIGH- DENSITY NEW YORK AIRSPACE WITH CONSIDERABLE CONVECTIVE ACTIVITY, COURSE DEVS WERE THE RULE. IN FACT, WE FLEW OUR RTE MORE OFF-COURSE THAN ON-COURSE TO AVOID HAZARDOUS WX. CLOSE TO OUR DEST ARPT, WE WERE (ATC) HELD AT 3 SEPARATE FIXES -- ALL NON-PUBLISHED, NON-STANDARD AND DESIGNATED BY ATC TO HELP US REMAIN CLR OF ALL HAZARDOUS WX. LEAVING THE FIRST FIX FOR THE SECOND (CLOSER TO THE ARPT), THE CLRNC WAS SOMEWHAT UNCLR TO MY CAPT-CANDIDATE AND ME BECAUSE WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD 'NW OF A FIX' HOWEVER THE PATTERN WAS ON THE E SIDE OF A RADIAL THAT EXTENDED SE FROM A VOR ON WHICH IT WAS PREDICATED. MY STUDENT AND I WERE CONFUSED AND ASKED ATC FOR CLARIFICATION WHICH WAS GIVEN TO OUR SATISFACTION, HOWEVER THE PATTERN WAS SOMEWHAT IMPACTED BY CONVECTIVE ACTIVITY. WE AGREED WE COULD MAKE IT WORK IF THE DURATION OF THE HOLD WAS SHORT AND WE COULD PROGRESS PAST THE CUMULUS CELLS. THE HOLD WAS TO BE BTWN THE 5-15 MI POINTS. REACHING THE CLRNC LIMIT (15 MI), WE TURNED TO REVERSE COURSE TO THE NW AND THE 5 MI LIMIT. AT 8 MI ON MY DME, ATC CALLED AND SAID THAT WE WERE PAST OUR INBOUND CLRNC LIMIT AND TO REVERSE COURSE TO STAY IN THE PATTERN. THAT WE DID BUT WITH NO CLARIFICATION FROM ATC BECAUSE THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO TIME TO GET A WORD IN BECAUSE OF THE WX AND THE OTHER ACFT ON THE FREQ. IT WAS A VERY INTENSE SIT AND TIME TO DO ONLY ONE THING -- COMPLY WITH ATC DIRECTION AND REVERSE COURSE! BY THE TIME WE RETURNED TO THE 15 MI FIX, WE WERE DIRECTED TOWARD ANOTHER HOLDING FIX AND ANOTHER CTLR. MY CAPT TRAINEE WAS BUSY GETTING ALTERNATE WX AND TALKING TO THE DISPATCHER AND TRYING TO BE THE BEST ASSISTANT HE COULD BE CONSIDERING THIS WAS HIS SECOND LEG ON THE ACFT. I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WAS ANY CONFLICT WITH OTHER ACFT NOR WERE WE MADE AWARE THAT A PROB EXISTED EXCEPT THAT WE EXCEEDED THE CONFINES OF OUR HOLDING PATTERN. I HONESTLY BELIEVE WE HAD A GOOD HANDLE ON THE SIT BUT WHAT WITH ALL THAT WAS GOING ON THAT AFTERNOON, THE REVERSE MAY BE THE CASE. WHAT WOULD I DO DIFFERENTLY NEXT TIME? ON ODD-BALL HOLDING PATTERNS WITH WX A MAJOR PLAYER, I WOULD ASK MY PNF TO FOLLOW ME EXACTLY WITH HIS INSTS AND CONTINUOUSLY ASK HIM IF HE AGREED WITH WHAT WE WERE FLYING VERSUS WHAT WE WERE CLRED TO FLY. I ALLOWED HIM TO STAY ON GETTING ALTERNATE WX, TALKING TO THE DISPATCHER, TALKING TO THE PAX ABOUT THE DELAY, TALKING WITH THE FLT ATTENDANTS ABOUT THE DELAY AND TALKING TO OPS. TOO MUCH CREW RESOURCE MGMNT BANTER AND NOT ENOUGH PAYING ATTN TO DETAILS OF FLYING THE AIRPLANE. AS A CHK PLT, I'M BOMBARDED WITH COCKPIT RESOURCE MGMNT WHICH I BELIEVE HAS ACTUALLY DISTRACTED FROM WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT -- FLYING THE AIRPLANE. COCKPIT RESOURCE MGMNT IS GREAT, BUT IT HAS ITS PLACE. I'VE LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.