37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 311730 |
Time | |
Date | 199507 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 3500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : straight in arrival star : star enroute other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 125 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 55 |
ASRS Report | 311730 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We had briefed and prepared for this arrival and approach early in the flight because I am new on the B767. All restrs and altitudes were entered in the FMS. We complied with all the restrs, but I noticed as we approached the hunda intersection with a restr of 3500 ft MSL, that if I continued to fly the GS I would be, what I estimated to be, 150 ft low. Instead of stopping the descent I elected to fly the GS and pass just a small amount below this restr. I like to be very precise in my flying so this got my attention. I realize at lax you cannot fly the GS and meet all restrs, especially at some of the farthest step-downs. A check with lax approach control by the telephone indicated to me that they thought you could fly the GS once cleared for an ILS approach and remain within all restrs, and it was designed that way. The passing of 100-200 ft low or high at these step-downs is not the reason I write this de-brief. My point is this arrival and approach is very busy and a great heads down event. My suggestion for a long time has been just have this approach designed to fly the GS, or minimize the step-downs. There is a lot of traffic at lax and the area around lax. We need to be outside more than inside. If 100-200 ft is that critical at these step-downs, I would suggest an alternate procedure. I am not an ATC expert so please understand my concerns as a pilot.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X ALTDEV. FAILED TO COMPLY WITH ILS APCH RESTR. ALTDEV ALT XING RESTR NOT MEET.
Narrative: WE HAD BRIEFED AND PREPARED FOR THIS ARR AND APCH EARLY IN THE FLT BECAUSE I AM NEW ON THE B767. ALL RESTRS AND ALTS WERE ENTERED IN THE FMS. WE COMPLIED WITH ALL THE RESTRS, BUT I NOTICED AS WE APCHED THE HUNDA INTXN WITH A RESTR OF 3500 FT MSL, THAT IF I CONTINUED TO FLY THE GS I WOULD BE, WHAT I ESTIMATED TO BE, 150 FT LOW. INSTEAD OF STOPPING THE DSCNT I ELECTED TO FLY THE GS AND PASS JUST A SMALL AMOUNT BELOW THIS RESTR. I LIKE TO BE VERY PRECISE IN MY FLYING SO THIS GOT MY ATTN. I REALIZE AT LAX YOU CANNOT FLY THE GS AND MEET ALL RESTRS, ESPECIALLY AT SOME OF THE FARTHEST STEP-DOWNS. A CHK WITH LAX APCH CTL BY THE TELEPHONE INDICATED TO ME THAT THEY THOUGHT YOU COULD FLY THE GS ONCE CLRED FOR AN ILS APCH AND REMAIN WITHIN ALL RESTRS, AND IT WAS DESIGNED THAT WAY. THE PASSING OF 100-200 FT LOW OR HIGH AT THESE STEP-DOWNS IS NOT THE REASON I WRITE THIS DE-BRIEF. MY POINT IS THIS ARR AND APCH IS VERY BUSY AND A GREAT HEADS DOWN EVENT. MY SUGGESTION FOR A LONG TIME HAS BEEN JUST HAVE THIS APCH DESIGNED TO FLY THE GS, OR MINIMIZE THE STEP-DOWNS. THERE IS A LOT OF TFC AT LAX AND THE AREA AROUND LAX. WE NEED TO BE OUTSIDE MORE THAN INSIDE. IF 100-200 FT IS THAT CRITICAL AT THESE STEP-DOWNS, I WOULD SUGGEST AN ALTERNATE PROC. I AM NOT AN ATC EXPERT SO PLEASE UNDERSTAND MY CONCERNS AS A PLT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.