37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 313010 |
Time | |
Date | 199508 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : las |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : las |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-9 40 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 313010 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Air carrier X (DC9-40 crew) was given position and hold awaiting takeoff runway 25R at las behind a B727. As the B727 rotated and climbed out, we were cleared for takeoff. We were cleared the mead 9 departure which calls for a right turn from runway heading to 070 degrees at 4000 ft or 4 DME, whichever occurs first. Our takeoff weight was low and we reached 4000 ft at approximately 2.5 DME and began our right turn to 070 degrees. Shortly into our turn, we're told to level off at 5000 ft (we had previously been cleared to 7000 ft) and give a maximum rate turn to our heading. It was moments later we learned we were turning inside and climbing much faster than the B727 that had departed ahead of us, and that we shouldn't have begun our turn until 4 DME. When the captain and I discussed this, we found clearance delivery had amended the mead 9 to turn at 4 DME. As the captain had received the clearance and I, the PF, had not communicated this change very well on the takeoff briefing, this error occurred. Immediately after receiving the clearance we were given a 40 min gate hold and also informed that intended destination had gone below minimums. This diverted our attention to notifying company of delay, possible change in fuel load, new WX, etc. After a closer look at the mead 9, we found the 4 DME turn, in lieu of the 4 DME or 4000 ft, whichever occurs first, is the norm, rather than the exception. The reason being the differing level of turbojet performance doesn't allow proper separation, which calls for a more defined point to start the turn. We feel the mead 9 should be changed to reflect this and prevent further problems of this nature.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X NON ADHERENCE TO ATC CLRNC. MADE TURN EARLY.
Narrative: ACR X (DC9-40 CREW) WAS GIVEN POS AND HOLD AWAITING TKOF RWY 25R AT LAS BEHIND A B727. AS THE B727 ROTATED AND CLBED OUT, WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. WE WERE CLRED THE MEAD 9 DEP WHICH CALLS FOR A R TURN FROM RWY HDG TO 070 DEGS AT 4000 FT OR 4 DME, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST. OUR TKOF WT WAS LOW AND WE REACHED 4000 FT AT APPROX 2.5 DME AND BEGAN OUR R TURN TO 070 DEGS. SHORTLY INTO OUR TURN, WE'RE TOLD TO LEVEL OFF AT 5000 FT (WE HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN CLRED TO 7000 FT) AND GIVE A MAX RATE TURN TO OUR HDG. IT WAS MOMENTS LATER WE LEARNED WE WERE TURNING INSIDE AND CLBING MUCH FASTER THAN THE B727 THAT HAD DEPARTED AHEAD OF US, AND THAT WE SHOULDN'T HAVE BEGUN OUR TURN UNTIL 4 DME. WHEN THE CAPT AND I DISCUSSED THIS, WE FOUND CLRNC DELIVERY HAD AMENDED THE MEAD 9 TO TURN AT 4 DME. AS THE CAPT HAD RECEIVED THE CLRNC AND I, THE PF, HAD NOT COMMUNICATED THIS CHANGE VERY WELL ON THE TKOF BRIEFING, THIS ERROR OCCURRED. IMMEDIATELY AFTER RECEIVING THE CLRNC WE WERE GIVEN A 40 MIN GATE HOLD AND ALSO INFORMED THAT INTENDED DEST HAD GONE BELOW MINIMUMS. THIS DIVERTED OUR ATTN TO NOTIFYING COMPANY OF DELAY, POSSIBLE CHANGE IN FUEL LOAD, NEW WX, ETC. AFTER A CLOSER LOOK AT THE MEAD 9, WE FOUND THE 4 DME TURN, IN LIEU OF THE 4 DME OR 4000 FT, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST, IS THE NORM, RATHER THAN THE EXCEPTION. THE REASON BEING THE DIFFERING LEVEL OF TURBOJET PERFORMANCE DOESN'T ALLOW PROPER SEPARATION, WHICH CALLS FOR A MORE DEFINED POINT TO START THE TURN. WE FEEL THE MEAD 9 SHOULD BE CHANGED TO REFLECT THIS AND PREVENT FURTHER PROBS OF THIS NATURE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.