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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 316468 |
Time | |
Date | 199509 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : fcm |
State Reference | MN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : fcm |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | PA-28 Cherokee/Archer II/Dakota/Pillan/Warrior |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Flight Plan | None |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | King Air C90 E90 |
Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 5 flight time total : 323 flight time type : 323 |
ASRS Report | 316468 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | other personnel other |
Qualification | pilot : private |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 2 flight time total : 195 flight time type : 195 |
ASRS Report | 316133 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 50 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was headed northbound to flying cloud airport to do a touch and go landing. I reported being over prior lake, a normal reporting point about 8 NM south of the airport. I was instructed to report right downwind for runway 18. Over the next 2 or 3 mins there was a continuing discussion between a king air and the tower concerning which runway to use. Their conversation ended with a clearance for them to use runway 9R. I had no visual contact with the king air. I was worried about a possible conflict with the king air which I assumed to be east of my position, so after a short time (approximately 3 mins) inbound from my initial call I asked my passenger, another pilot to radio our position to the tower. He reported our position as over valley fair another prominent landmark approximately 2 NM from flying cloud airport and asked if we would be switched over to runway 9R. The tower said no that we should continue in a n-easterly direction and pass behind the king air. Shortly after that I saw the king air to my right and approximately 50-100 ft above me. I avoided the king air by a rapid descent. The king air passed immediately over me. From further conversation between the king air and the tower, it was clear that the king air had not seen me earlier. We seemed to see each other at approximately the same instant. The time between my initial call to the tower and the close call was approximately 3 mins. This could have been avoided by: the tower could have advised us how close the traffic was to us (I think that he was preoccupied by his conversation with the king air) or advised the king air of our position. He could have also anticipated the potential conflict several mins earlier and asked us to vary our course in order to have enough space to pass behind the king air. The king air could have looked for us also. His attitude based on his comments before and after the conflict was that he owned the air and we got too close to him. I should have immediately advised the tower that I did not have visual contact with the king air. While departing the controller asked if I had seen the king air. My passenger said no and there was one further communication. Supplemental information from acn 316133: I was a passenger but was running radios because the pilot was nervous about a towered airport, which he's not used to. I asked tower if we should take runway 9R and tower said no. I thought tower said to follow the king air, which we did not yet see, and he emphatically said 'do not follow.' at this point I saw the king air to my right and just above us. I pointed down, for the pilot to descend quickly, which he did. The king air passed over us 30-50 ft above. We had not seen the king air, which I don't think had its landing light on. Tower had not advised us of how close the king air was, nor did I hear the king air advise that he had us in sight. We could have avoided this by asking tower for position of the king air. I wish the tower would have had us turn east until he was past us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NMAC BTWN ACFT X AND ACFT Y. CONVERGING COURSE TFC PATTERNS FOR INTERSECTING RWYS.
Narrative: I WAS HEADED NBOUND TO FLYING CLOUD ARPT TO DO A TOUCH AND GO LNDG. I RPTED BEING OVER PRIOR LAKE, A NORMAL RPTING POINT ABOUT 8 NM S OF THE ARPT. I WAS INSTRUCTED TO RPT R DOWNWIND FOR RWY 18. OVER THE NEXT 2 OR 3 MINS THERE WAS A CONTINUING DISCUSSION BTWN A KING AIR AND THE TWR CONCERNING WHICH RWY TO USE. THEIR CONVERSATION ENDED WITH A CLRNC FOR THEM TO USE RWY 9R. I HAD NO VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE KING AIR. I WAS WORRIED ABOUT A POSSIBLE CONFLICT WITH THE KING AIR WHICH I ASSUMED TO BE E OF MY POS, SO AFTER A SHORT TIME (APPROX 3 MINS) INBOUND FROM MY INITIAL CALL I ASKED MY PAX, ANOTHER PLT TO RADIO OUR POS TO THE TWR. HE RPTED OUR POS AS OVER VALLEY FAIR ANOTHER PROMINENT LANDMARK APPROX 2 NM FROM FLYING CLOUD ARPT AND ASKED IF WE WOULD BE SWITCHED OVER TO RWY 9R. THE TWR SAID NO THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE IN A N-EASTERLY DIRECTION AND PASS BEHIND THE KING AIR. SHORTLY AFTER THAT I SAW THE KING AIR TO MY R AND APPROX 50-100 FT ABOVE ME. I AVOIDED THE KING AIR BY A RAPID DSCNT. THE KING AIR PASSED IMMEDIATELY OVER ME. FROM FURTHER CONVERSATION BTWN THE KING AIR AND THE TWR, IT WAS CLR THAT THE KING AIR HAD NOT SEEN ME EARLIER. WE SEEMED TO SEE EACH OTHER AT APPROX THE SAME INSTANT. THE TIME BTWN MY INITIAL CALL TO THE TWR AND THE CLOSE CALL WAS APPROX 3 MINS. THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY: THE TWR COULD HAVE ADVISED US HOW CLOSE THE TFC WAS TO US (I THINK THAT HE WAS PREOCCUPIED BY HIS CONVERSATION WITH THE KING AIR) OR ADVISED THE KING AIR OF OUR POS. HE COULD HAVE ALSO ANTICIPATED THE POTENTIAL CONFLICT SEVERAL MINS EARLIER AND ASKED US TO VARY OUR COURSE IN ORDER TO HAVE ENOUGH SPACE TO PASS BEHIND THE KING AIR. THE KING AIR COULD HAVE LOOKED FOR US ALSO. HIS ATTITUDE BASED ON HIS COMMENTS BEFORE AND AFTER THE CONFLICT WAS THAT HE OWNED THE AIR AND WE GOT TOO CLOSE TO HIM. I SHOULD HAVE IMMEDIATELY ADVISED THE TWR THAT I DID NOT HAVE VISUAL CONTACT WITH THE KING AIR. WHILE DEPARTING THE CTLR ASKED IF I HAD SEEN THE KING AIR. MY PAX SAID NO AND THERE WAS ONE FURTHER COM. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 316133: I WAS A PAX BUT WAS RUNNING RADIOS BECAUSE THE PLT WAS NERVOUS ABOUT A TOWERED ARPT, WHICH HE'S NOT USED TO. I ASKED TWR IF WE SHOULD TAKE RWY 9R AND TWR SAID NO. I THOUGHT TWR SAID TO FOLLOW THE KING AIR, WHICH WE DID NOT YET SEE, AND HE EMPHATICALLY SAID 'DO NOT FOLLOW.' AT THIS POINT I SAW THE KING AIR TO MY R AND JUST ABOVE US. I POINTED DOWN, FOR THE PLT TO DSND QUICKLY, WHICH HE DID. THE KING AIR PASSED OVER US 30-50 FT ABOVE. WE HAD NOT SEEN THE KING AIR, WHICH I DON'T THINK HAD ITS LNDG LIGHT ON. TWR HAD NOT ADVISED US OF HOW CLOSE THE KING AIR WAS, NOR DID I HEAR THE KING AIR ADVISE THAT HE HAD US IN SIGHT. WE COULD HAVE AVOIDED THIS BY ASKING TWR FOR POS OF THE KING AIR. I WISH THE TWR WOULD HAVE HAD US TURN E UNTIL HE WAS PAST US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.