37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 322192 |
Time | |
Date | 199511 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground other : taxi other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 8300 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 322192 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 4200 flight time type : 900 |
ASRS Report | 322191 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : rejected takeoff other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We arrived at lga to find our aircraft covered with about 2 inches of snow. We requested deicing and it was done after boarding. We noted that the deicing time took over 20 mins to complete. We were given deice times by our major partner (air carrier X) and they had used both type I and type ii fluids. Being conservative we used the type I holdover chart which gave us a time of 5-15 mins. The WX at the time of deice was light snow flurries. We taxied out at XA15 and it took only 5 mins to reach runway 31 for departure. We did our required pretkof contamination check and the first officer and I both agreed that the wings were clean. On the takeoff roll the tower called us to abort the takeoff and advised us that air carrier Y had reported snow on the ailerons. Air carrier Y corrected the tower and said it was on the horizontal stabilizer. We cleared the runway and returned to the gate. Upon arrival at the gate the deice crew quickly sprayed the horizontal stabilizer and fuselage again before we could get out to inspect it. I did a walk around the aircraft and inspected the surfaces I could see. The procedure in our deice manual requires a final inspection by the deice crew which is to ensure the tail has been properly deiced. The horizontal stabilizer is too high for us as a flight crew to determine if it has been properly deiced, so we are only required to look at the wings from inside the aircraft. I believe the air carrier Y crew saved the lives of my passenger, my crew, and myself. We probably would have had a tailplane stall with disastrous results. Supplemental information from acn 322191: this type aircraft has a very high tail and it is impossible to see the top of it from the ground. As a crew we have to trust that the deice personnel did their job, particularly when they tell us that it was complete. This particular station is well known for not liking to work on turboprops, and we never get good service from them. Me and the captain agreed that the pilot behind us was most likely correct, and that we had ice on our elevator. We also agreed that there was nothing we could have done to prevent this potentially dangerous situation. We did report the problem to our safety committee.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: COMMUTER ACFT TOLD TO ABORT TKOF BECAUSE ACR TAXIING BEHIND SIGHTS SNOW BUILDUP ON ELEVATORS.
Narrative: WE ARRIVED AT LGA TO FIND OUR ACFT COVERED WITH ABOUT 2 INCHES OF SNOW. WE REQUESTED DEICING AND IT WAS DONE AFTER BOARDING. WE NOTED THAT THE DEICING TIME TOOK OVER 20 MINS TO COMPLETE. WE WERE GIVEN DEICE TIMES BY OUR MAJOR PARTNER (ACR X) AND THEY HAD USED BOTH TYPE I AND TYPE II FLUIDS. BEING CONSERVATIVE WE USED THE TYPE I HOLDOVER CHART WHICH GAVE US A TIME OF 5-15 MINS. THE WX AT THE TIME OF DEICE WAS LIGHT SNOW FLURRIES. WE TAXIED OUT AT XA15 AND IT TOOK ONLY 5 MINS TO REACH RWY 31 FOR DEP. WE DID OUR REQUIRED PRETKOF CONTAMINATION CHK AND THE FO AND I BOTH AGREED THAT THE WINGS WERE CLEAN. ON THE TKOF ROLL THE TWR CALLED US TO ABORT THE TKOF AND ADVISED US THAT ACR Y HAD RPTED SNOW ON THE AILERONS. ACR Y CORRECTED THE TWR AND SAID IT WAS ON THE HORIZ STABILIZER. WE CLRED THE RWY AND RETURNED TO THE GATE. UPON ARR AT THE GATE THE DEICE CREW QUICKLY SPRAYED THE HORIZ STABILIZER AND FUSELAGE AGAIN BEFORE WE COULD GET OUT TO INSPECT IT. I DID A WALK AROUND THE ACFT AND INSPECTED THE SURFACES I COULD SEE. THE PROC IN OUR DEICE MANUAL REQUIRES A FINAL INSPECTION BY THE DEICE CREW WHICH IS TO ENSURE THE TAIL HAS BEEN PROPERLY DEICED. THE HORIZ STABILIZER IS TOO HIGH FOR US AS A FLC TO DETERMINE IF IT HAS BEEN PROPERLY DEICED, SO WE ARE ONLY REQUIRED TO LOOK AT THE WINGS FROM INSIDE THE ACFT. I BELIEVE THE ACR Y CREW SAVED THE LIVES OF MY PAX, MY CREW, AND MYSELF. WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HAD A TAILPLANE STALL WITH DISASTROUS RESULTS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 322191: THIS TYPE ACFT HAS A VERY HIGH TAIL AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE THE TOP OF IT FROM THE GND. AS A CREW WE HAVE TO TRUST THAT THE DEICE PERSONNEL DID THEIR JOB, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY TELL US THAT IT WAS COMPLETE. THIS PARTICULAR STATION IS WELL KNOWN FOR NOT LIKING TO WORK ON TURBOPROPS, AND WE NEVER GET GOOD SVC FROM THEM. ME AND THE CAPT AGREED THAT THE PLT BEHIND US WAS MOST LIKELY CORRECT, AND THAT WE HAD ICE ON OUR ELEVATOR. WE ALSO AGREED THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD HAVE DONE TO PREVENT THIS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS SIT. WE DID RPT THE PROB TO OUR SAFETY COMMITTEE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.