37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 322200 |
Time | |
Date | 199511 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sna |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sna |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 9850 flight time type : 6000 |
ASRS Report | 322200 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 14600 flight time type : 7800 |
ASRS Report | 322430 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation |
Narrative:
We were flying from smf to sna. We were talking with socal. When approaching the coastline off of sna, approach assigned us a 030 degree heading and 5000 ft. Once passing the coastline we were handed off to the final socal controller. We switched to the final controller and checked in. He instructed us to fly 020 degrees, maintain 3000 ft, and expect a visual approach in 4 mi. I read back fly 020 degrees, maintain 3000 ft. When we were descending out of 4300 ft on downwind, abeam the airport, the controller asked, what is your altitude? I told him we were out of 4200 ft for 3000 ft. He asked who gave us 3000 ft? I said you did. He said he did not give us 3000 ft. The captain responded on the radio saying, on our initial contact you gave us a 020 degree heading and 3000 ft. He said again that he did not. The controller then cleared us for a visual approach and to contact the tower. After arriving at the gate the captain proceeded into operations to make a phone call to socal. He talked to a supervisor who agreed to pull the tapes in a couple of hours and advised us to call back. We went to the hotel and called back. This time the captain was talking to an area manager who admitted the controller had made an operational deviation. We were told that there was no loss of separation and that the controller had indeed cleared us to a 020 degree heading and 3000 ft. Supplemental information from acn 322430: the final controller should not have assigned us that altitude, the manager said, because it was not his airspace. The final controller would probably get an operational deviation charged to him. No loss of separation occurred.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: APCH CTLR DSNDED ACFT PRIOR TO ENTERING HIS AIRSPACE, THEN QUESTIONED THE RPTR'S ACFT ON THEIR ALT. CAPT DISCUSSED THE SIT WITH A SUPVR UPON LNDG AND WAS TOLD THAT NO SEPARATION WAS LOST AND THAT THE CTLR HAD COMMITTED AN OPDEV.
Narrative: WE WERE FLYING FROM SMF TO SNA. WE WERE TALKING WITH SOCAL. WHEN APCHING THE COASTLINE OFF OF SNA, APCH ASSIGNED US A 030 DEG HDG AND 5000 FT. ONCE PASSING THE COASTLINE WE WERE HANDED OFF TO THE FINAL SOCAL CTLR. WE SWITCHED TO THE FINAL CTLR AND CHKED IN. HE INSTRUCTED US TO FLY 020 DEGS, MAINTAIN 3000 FT, AND EXPECT A VISUAL APCH IN 4 MI. I READ BACK FLY 020 DEGS, MAINTAIN 3000 FT. WHEN WE WERE DSNDING OUT OF 4300 FT ON DOWNWIND, ABEAM THE ARPT, THE CTLR ASKED, WHAT IS YOUR ALT? I TOLD HIM WE WERE OUT OF 4200 FT FOR 3000 FT. HE ASKED WHO GAVE US 3000 FT? I SAID YOU DID. HE SAID HE DID NOT GIVE US 3000 FT. THE CAPT RESPONDED ON THE RADIO SAYING, ON OUR INITIAL CONTACT YOU GAVE US A 020 DEG HDG AND 3000 FT. HE SAID AGAIN THAT HE DID NOT. THE CTLR THEN CLRED US FOR A VISUAL APCH AND TO CONTACT THE TWR. AFTER ARRIVING AT THE GATE THE CAPT PROCEEDED INTO OPS TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO SOCAL. HE TALKED TO A SUPVR WHO AGREED TO PULL THE TAPES IN A COUPLE OF HRS AND ADVISED US TO CALL BACK. WE WENT TO THE HOTEL AND CALLED BACK. THIS TIME THE CAPT WAS TALKING TO AN AREA MGR WHO ADMITTED THE CTLR HAD MADE AN OPDEV. WE WERE TOLD THAT THERE WAS NO LOSS OF SEPARATION AND THAT THE CTLR HAD INDEED CLRED US TO A 020 DEG HDG AND 3000 FT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 322430: THE FINAL CTLR SHOULD NOT HAVE ASSIGNED US THAT ALT, THE MGR SAID, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT HIS AIRSPACE. THE FINAL CTLR WOULD PROBABLY GET AN OPDEV CHARGED TO HIM. NO LOSS OF SEPARATION OCCURRED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.