37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 336980 |
Time | |
Date | 199605 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : huo |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 15900 msl bound upper : 15900 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zbw |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | PA-31 Navajo Chieftan/Mojave/Navajo T1020 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 19560 flight time type : 4200 |
ASRS Report | 336980 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On may/xa/96 at approximately XA30 local (I'm not sure about the time), I called ZBW over huo VOR, for VFR flight following at 15900 ft, indicated, for VFR aerial mapping from huo to uca, which is to the north. We would be working at different altitudes due to different terrain elevations, from 15900 ft to 16700 ft. I don't remember all the conversation with the controller, because it was very, very upsetting. When I called, trying to talk in an oxygen mask, and he's having difficulty understanding me, he advised me he was moving aircraft due to my being at an IFR altitude. (He showed me at 16000 ft on the mode C.) he never requested any cooperation other than to tell me I was at the wrong altitude. We are happy to try to help controller so that we can get the job done. I think I reacted rather than acted and try to explain this to him. He then said he had the supervisor there and to repeat everything, which I did. He then said I would be getting a call on may/xd/96. There is no legal requirement, according to the company, to even call the controller (in this type of airspace). The visibility was 50 mi at altitude -- for real! For my own peace of mind, I called the center for advisories to help me keep track of other airplanes he is showing on radar (they don't see all of them or don't call all of them out to us). When I first came to work for the company I asked if we had a waiver from the FAA to operate at any altitude. My supervisor told me we did not need one. This spring I asked again, same answer. My concern was so great as to write a letter to an aviation magazine. I really would like to know if we are legal doing this work at an IFR altitude or not. That's why I even put my vacation phone number on here. (The whole aerial mapping industry does it.) all altitudes. I'm afraid to call the FSDO about this for putting my job in jeopardy. I would like to get to the bottom of this. Hope you can help. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated he was able to negotiate with the controllers now for the required airspace to fulfill his mission. Some areas are more difficult, of course, for everybody. The oxygen mask microphone has been modified to work better now. A pressurized aircraft will not work because the camera and lens arrangement become distorted when the aircraft pressurizes.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE FLC MAPPING MISSION CALLED FOR THE PLT TO CRUISE VFR AT AN IFR CRUISE ALT.
Narrative: ON MAY/XA/96 AT APPROX XA30 LCL (I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE TIME), I CALLED ZBW OVER HUO VOR, FOR VFR FLT FOLLOWING AT 15900 FT, INDICATED, FOR VFR AERIAL MAPPING FROM HUO TO UCA, WHICH IS TO THE N. WE WOULD BE WORKING AT DIFFERENT ALTS DUE TO DIFFERENT TERRAIN ELEVATIONS, FROM 15900 FT TO 16700 FT. I DON'T REMEMBER ALL THE CONVERSATION WITH THE CTLR, BECAUSE IT WAS VERY, VERY UPSETTING. WHEN I CALLED, TRYING TO TALK IN AN OXYGEN MASK, AND HE'S HAVING DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING ME, HE ADVISED ME HE WAS MOVING ACFT DUE TO MY BEING AT AN IFR ALT. (HE SHOWED ME AT 16000 FT ON THE MODE C.) HE NEVER REQUESTED ANY COOPERATION OTHER THAN TO TELL ME I WAS AT THE WRONG ALT. WE ARE HAPPY TO TRY TO HELP CTLR SO THAT WE CAN GET THE JOB DONE. I THINK I REACTED RATHER THAN ACTED AND TRY TO EXPLAIN THIS TO HIM. HE THEN SAID HE HAD THE SUPVR THERE AND TO REPEAT EVERYTHING, WHICH I DID. HE THEN SAID I WOULD BE GETTING A CALL ON MAY/XD/96. THERE IS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT, ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY, TO EVEN CALL THE CTLR (IN THIS TYPE OF AIRSPACE). THE VISIBILITY WAS 50 MI AT ALT -- FOR REAL! FOR MY OWN PEACE OF MIND, I CALLED THE CTR FOR ADVISORIES TO HELP ME KEEP TRACK OF OTHER AIRPLANES HE IS SHOWING ON RADAR (THEY DON'T SEE ALL OF THEM OR DON'T CALL ALL OF THEM OUT TO US). WHEN I FIRST CAME TO WORK FOR THE COMPANY I ASKED IF WE HAD A WAIVER FROM THE FAA TO OPERATE AT ANY ALT. MY SUPVR TOLD ME WE DID NOT NEED ONE. THIS SPRING I ASKED AGAIN, SAME ANSWER. MY CONCERN WAS SO GREAT AS TO WRITE A LETTER TO AN AVIATION MAGAZINE. I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF WE ARE LEGAL DOING THIS WORK AT AN IFR ALT OR NOT. THAT'S WHY I EVEN PUT MY VACATION PHONE NUMBER ON HERE. (THE WHOLE AERIAL MAPPING INDUSTRY DOES IT.) ALL ALTS. I'M AFRAID TO CALL THE FSDO ABOUT THIS FOR PUTTING MY JOB IN JEOPARDY. I WOULD LIKE TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. HOPE YOU CAN HELP. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED HE WAS ABLE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE CTLRS NOW FOR THE REQUIRED AIRSPACE TO FULFILL HIS MISSION. SOME AREAS ARE MORE DIFFICULT, OF COURSE, FOR EVERYBODY. THE OXYGEN MASK MICROPHONE HAS BEEN MODIFIED TO WORK BETTER NOW. A PRESSURIZED ACFT WILL NOT WORK BECAUSE THE CAMERA AND LENS ARRANGEMENT BECOME DISTORTED WHEN THE ACFT PRESSURIZES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.