37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 359565 |
Time | |
Date | 199702 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dtw |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : grb |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | ATR 72 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff cruise other landing other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 359565 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
In early jan/97 our company issued a flight manual information bulletin that is confusing and misleading. Examples are following. The company is requiring us to carry an ATR operations brochure, published by ATR in oct/95. This document, formally called 'all WX operations' specifically states that ATR's are not allowed to fly in freezing drizzle or rain. Using PIREPS from another ATR may be fine, but the memo makes it sound like any aircraft report can be used (ie, a B757 with a 10-25+ ram temperature rise?). Unless a PIREP is from another ATR, it is of no use to another ATR. And even then, what in the world is an ATR doing starting an approach into WX conditions beyond the certification limits of the aircraft. I would not place very much faith in such a person's judgement, or PIREP. The company states that freezing rain and drizzle may not be severe. If we encounter it, however, we have to immediately leave it, fitting the aim severe ice description. The severe icing procedure is in our emergency checklists and using the severe icing checklist is an emergency situation. Also, neither I nor any other company pilot has received training or been certified to make WX reports. Please note the bulletin discussed is on a color of paper which at our company means the bulletin is advisory in nature and was not approved by the FAA. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: report submission was prompted by dispatcher pressure regarding this captain's decision to divert when the destination, ord, was reporting freezing rain. During descent, this reporter was told that another company ATR had landed at ord. This captain continued to divert to mke in spite of the fact that another company aircraft had continued, choosing to rely on his own interpretation of the risks involved. This reporter felt that the other flight crew did not use good judgement.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A COMMUTER AT72 CAPT RPTS A CONFLICT BTWN COMPANY ICING POLICY AND MANUFACTURER'S INFO. RPTR'S GRAPHIC ALSO INDICATES THAT THE COMPANY DIRECTS PLT RESPONSE TO ENCOUNTERING FREEZING RAIN AS PRIORITY VERSUS AN EMER, BUT THE SEVERE ICING PROC IS CONTAINED IN THE EMER CHKLIST.
Narrative: IN EARLY JAN/97 OUR COMPANY ISSUED A FLT MANUAL INFO BULLETIN THAT IS CONFUSING AND MISLEADING. EXAMPLES ARE FOLLOWING. THE COMPANY IS REQUIRING US TO CARRY AN ATR OPS BROCHURE, PUBLISHED BY ATR IN OCT/95. THIS DOCUMENT, FORMALLY CALLED 'ALL WX OPS' SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT ATR'S ARE NOT ALLOWED TO FLY IN FREEZING DRIZZLE OR RAIN. USING PIREPS FROM ANOTHER ATR MAY BE FINE, BUT THE MEMO MAKES IT SOUND LIKE ANY ACFT RPT CAN BE USED (IE, A B757 WITH A 10-25+ RAM TEMP RISE?). UNLESS A PIREP IS FROM ANOTHER ATR, IT IS OF NO USE TO ANOTHER ATR. AND EVEN THEN, WHAT IN THE WORLD IS AN ATR DOING STARTING AN APCH INTO WX CONDITIONS BEYOND THE CERTIFICATION LIMITS OF THE ACFT. I WOULD NOT PLACE VERY MUCH FAITH IN SUCH A PERSON'S JUDGEMENT, OR PIREP. THE COMPANY STATES THAT FREEZING RAIN AND DRIZZLE MAY NOT BE SEVERE. IF WE ENCOUNTER IT, HOWEVER, WE HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY LEAVE IT, FITTING THE AIM SEVERE ICE DESCRIPTION. THE SEVERE ICING PROC IS IN OUR EMER CHKLISTS AND USING THE SEVERE ICING CHKLIST IS AN EMER SIT. ALSO, NEITHER I NOR ANY OTHER COMPANY PLT HAS RECEIVED TRAINING OR BEEN CERTIFIED TO MAKE WX RPTS. PLEASE NOTE THE BULLETIN DISCUSSED IS ON A COLOR OF PAPER WHICH AT OUR COMPANY MEANS THE BULLETIN IS ADVISORY IN NATURE AND WAS NOT APPROVED BY THE FAA. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPT SUBMISSION WAS PROMPTED BY DISPATCHER PRESSURE REGARDING THIS CAPT'S DECISION TO DIVERT WHEN THE DEST, ORD, WAS RPTING FREEZING RAIN. DURING DSCNT, THIS RPTR WAS TOLD THAT ANOTHER COMPANY ATR HAD LANDED AT ORD. THIS CAPT CONTINUED TO DIVERT TO MKE IN SPITE OF THE FACT THAT ANOTHER COMPANY ACFT HAD CONTINUED, CHOOSING TO RELY ON HIS OWN INTERP OF THE RISKS INVOLVED. THIS RPTR FELT THAT THE OTHER FLC DID NOT USE GOOD JUDGEMENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.