37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 361971 |
Time | |
Date | 199702 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : jfk |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8800 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 361971 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
CRM takes more than 50% of a 2-PERSON crew to be effective. I'm not new to this aviation game and cannot be easily intimidated, but I did get the feeling that anyway I tried to help or question him was not appreciated. On the last leg we were given the usual crossing restr of ziggy at 8000 ft. He started a 750 FPM descent and it was obvious more was needed to make the restr. I called 10 mi to our crossing restr. He nosed it over to 1200 FPM. This would still not be enough. I wanted to say more, but found myself biting my tongue waiting to see if he would figure it out. Then ATC asked him to expedite his descent. He nosed over from 1200 FPM to 1500 FPM. I knew he was aware of the restr and looked down to find the correct approach plate. When I looked up again, he had 1 mi and 1200 ft to go. I stated loudly 'you've got 1 mi to make that restr.' instead of flight idle and 3000 FPM he said 'if ATC was that worried about making us cross at 8000 ft, they would have said something by now!' we crossed ziggy at 8800 ft as I sat there in stunned silence! Yikes! Where do I go from here? If I had hounded him every mi to descend faster, would that have made a difference? I think not, as he was out to show me it was him, and not ATC, making all the decisions for our aircraft. I was also tired, as this was the last leg of a 4 day trip, so I never did say another word to him about that (or anything else) for the rest of the flight, as I thought it would do no good and a battle might ensue.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR LTT FLC WAS TOO HIGH AT A XING POINT IN SPITE OF THE EFFORTS OF THE FO AND THE CTLR TO CONVINCE THE CAPT TO INCREASE HIS DSCNT RATE.
Narrative: CRM TAKES MORE THAN 50% OF A 2-PERSON CREW TO BE EFFECTIVE. I'M NOT NEW TO THIS AVIATION GAME AND CANNOT BE EASILY INTIMIDATED, BUT I DID GET THE FEELING THAT ANYWAY I TRIED TO HELP OR QUESTION HIM WAS NOT APPRECIATED. ON THE LAST LEG WE WERE GIVEN THE USUAL XING RESTR OF ZIGGY AT 8000 FT. HE STARTED A 750 FPM DSCNT AND IT WAS OBVIOUS MORE WAS NEEDED TO MAKE THE RESTR. I CALLED 10 MI TO OUR XING RESTR. HE NOSED IT OVER TO 1200 FPM. THIS WOULD STILL NOT BE ENOUGH. I WANTED TO SAY MORE, BUT FOUND MYSELF BITING MY TONGUE WAITING TO SEE IF HE WOULD FIGURE IT OUT. THEN ATC ASKED HIM TO EXPEDITE HIS DSCNT. HE NOSED OVER FROM 1200 FPM TO 1500 FPM. I KNEW HE WAS AWARE OF THE RESTR AND LOOKED DOWN TO FIND THE CORRECT APCH PLATE. WHEN I LOOKED UP AGAIN, HE HAD 1 MI AND 1200 FT TO GO. I STATED LOUDLY 'YOU'VE GOT 1 MI TO MAKE THAT RESTR.' INSTEAD OF FLT IDLE AND 3000 FPM HE SAID 'IF ATC WAS THAT WORRIED ABOUT MAKING US CROSS AT 8000 FT, THEY WOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING BY NOW!' WE CROSSED ZIGGY AT 8800 FT AS I SAT THERE IN STUNNED SILENCE! YIKES! WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE? IF I HAD HOUNDED HIM EVERY MI TO DSND FASTER, WOULD THAT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE? I THINK NOT, AS HE WAS OUT TO SHOW ME IT WAS HIM, AND NOT ATC, MAKING ALL THE DECISIONS FOR OUR ACFT. I WAS ALSO TIRED, AS THIS WAS THE LAST LEG OF A 4 DAY TRIP, SO I NEVER DID SAY ANOTHER WORD TO HIM ABOUT THAT (OR ANYTHING ELSE) FOR THE REST OF THE FLT, AS I THOUGHT IT WOULD DO NO GOOD AND A BATTLE MIGHT ENSUE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.