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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 363383 |
Time | |
Date | 199703 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1000 msl bound upper : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Xingu EMB-121 All Series |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 363383 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 260 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 260 |
ASRS Report | 363162 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac inflight encounter other non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 200 vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation Operational Error other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
On the civet arrival for runway 25L and was given numerous speed restrs. After bremer was cleared the visual to runway 25L behind preceding traffic and asked to slow to 140 KTS or less. Spacing on aircraft only around 2 mi. Numerous traffic preceding to runway 24R&left. From hunda inbound a TA of another aircraft on screen above us with horizontal separation varying between 400-100 ft. Captain (PNF) asked socal approach about traffic numerous times with socal stating traffic is following for runway 25R. Our question: following who and does he know what aircraft to follow? Just prior to limma, received an RA to descend and followed maneuver which put aircraft below approach path. PNF/PF still could not see aircraft on runway 25R so requested a left turn for maneuvering and was now told by tower that hawthorne was off our left with numerous targets and at our altitude he couldn't guarantee separation. Tower asked if we still could see runway at which time we finally saw the brasilia just off our right wing on runway 25R. We went ahead and landed runway 25L without incident. Both aircraft touched down at the same time on runways 25L and right. Situation was one in which the density of traffic to parallel runways with visibility due to haze and sun at VMC minimums. Suggest controllers as well as pilots of commuters. Receive training on TCASII and its inherent ability to maintain flight proximity to other aircraft at a minimum. If that protected airspace is violated, we must maneuver which in this case left us without a safe option.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN NMAC DURING SIMULTANEOUS APCHS INTO LAX. MULTIPLE RWY OP PARALLEL APCHS.
Narrative: ON THE CIVET ARR FOR RWY 25L AND WAS GIVEN NUMEROUS SPD RESTRS. AFTER BREMER WAS CLRED THE VISUAL TO RWY 25L BEHIND PRECEDING TFC AND ASKED TO SLOW TO 140 KTS OR LESS. SPACING ON ACFT ONLY AROUND 2 MI. NUMEROUS TFC PRECEDING TO RWY 24R&L. FROM HUNDA INBOUND A TA OF ANOTHER ACFT ON SCREEN ABOVE US WITH HORIZ SEPARATION VARYING BTWN 400-100 FT. CAPT (PNF) ASKED SOCAL APCH ABOUT TFC NUMEROUS TIMES WITH SOCAL STATING TFC IS FOLLOWING FOR RWY 25R. OUR QUESTION: FOLLOWING WHO AND DOES HE KNOW WHAT ACFT TO FOLLOW? JUST PRIOR TO LIMMA, RECEIVED AN RA TO DSND AND FOLLOWED MANEUVER WHICH PUT ACFT BELOW APCH PATH. PNF/PF STILL COULD NOT SEE ACFT ON RWY 25R SO REQUESTED A L TURN FOR MANEUVERING AND WAS NOW TOLD BY TWR THAT HAWTHORNE WAS OFF OUR L WITH NUMEROUS TARGETS AND AT OUR ALT HE COULDN'T GUARANTEE SEPARATION. TWR ASKED IF WE STILL COULD SEE RWY AT WHICH TIME WE FINALLY SAW THE BRASILIA JUST OFF OUR R WING ON RWY 25R. WE WENT AHEAD AND LANDED RWY 25L WITHOUT INCIDENT. BOTH ACFT TOUCHED DOWN AT THE SAME TIME ON RWYS 25L AND R. SIT WAS ONE IN WHICH THE DENSITY OF TFC TO PARALLEL RWYS WITH VISIBILITY DUE TO HAZE AND SUN AT VMC MINIMUMS. SUGGEST CTLRS AS WELL AS PLTS OF COMMUTERS. RECEIVE TRAINING ON TCASII AND ITS INHERENT ABILITY TO MAINTAIN FLT PROX TO OTHER ACFT AT A MINIMUM. IF THAT PROTECTED AIRSPACE IS VIOLATED, WE MUST MANEUVER WHICH IN THIS CASE LEFT US WITHOUT A SAFE OPTION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.