Narrative:

Pilot initiated turns as depicted on the SID for lax are unsatisfactory and unsafe. Pilots/aircraft consistently and continually execute the procedure for turning at the required smo VOR radial too late to ensure proper separation. Example: on mar/sat/97 at approximately XX30Z, air carrier #1 departed runway 25 and failed to turn left as depicted on the sebby SID. The result was a loss of separation between air carrier #1 and air carrier #2 which departed runway 24. Immediately following this situation the following aircraft also failed to turn in accordance with the procedure and were not in compliance with the lax airport waiver allowing simultaneous instrument departures. Each occurrence was brought to the attention of the supervisor in charge. Air carrier #1 and air carrier #2 radar targets were so close that air carrier #1 was instructed to make an immediate left turn. The failure of each of the aircraft to properly turn was significant enough to warrant a phone call from the los angeles area supervisor to lax tower in an effort to rectify the situation. FAA management at sct has been made aware of the problem but are apparently more concerned with departure delays than with safety. Solutions: terminate simultaneous departures at lax until such time as a new procedure is developed that will ensure prompt turns. Disseminate a NOTAM that will emphasize the importance of a prompt turn in accordance with SID. Require lax tower to issue turn instructions to pilots. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter alleged that the ucr response indicated the simultaneous departure procedures were legal and within guidelines. Reporter thought the waiver for simultaneous departure operations required the runway 25 departures to start their turn within 2 mi of the airport and wasn't sure how this related distance wise to the smo radial depicted in the SID. Reporter was not sure that this is an flight crew problem with turns not being made as promptly as they should be at the smo radial. Reporter said dcs are aware of the problem and are very observant that the turns are made to avert conflicts with the runway 24 departures.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: RPTR STATES AN LTSS OCCURRED WHEN AN ACR B767 FAILED TO TURN PER SID PROC AND CONFLICTED WITH AN ACR BA46 DEPARTING ANOTHER RWY. PLTDEV.

Narrative: PLT INITIATED TURNS AS DEPICTED ON THE SID FOR LAX ARE UNSATISFACTORY AND UNSAFE. PLTS/ACFT CONSISTENTLY AND CONTINUALLY EXECUTE THE PROC FOR TURNING AT THE REQUIRED SMO VOR RADIAL TOO LATE TO ENSURE PROPER SEPARATION. EXAMPLE: ON MAR/SAT/97 AT APPROX XX30Z, ACR #1 DEPARTED RWY 25 AND FAILED TO TURN L AS DEPICTED ON THE SEBBY SID. THE RESULT WAS A LOSS OF SEPARATION BTWN ACR #1 AND ACR #2 WHICH DEPARTED RWY 24. IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THIS SIT THE FOLLOWING ACFT ALSO FAILED TO TURN IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE PROC AND WERE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE LAX ARPT WAIVER ALLOWING SIMULTANEOUS INST DEPS. EACH OCCURRENCE WAS BROUGHT TO THE ATTN OF THE SUPVR IN CHARGE. ACR #1 AND ACR #2 RADAR TARGETS WERE SO CLOSE THAT ACR #1 WAS INSTRUCTED TO MAKE AN IMMEDIATE L TURN. THE FAILURE OF EACH OF THE ACFT TO PROPERLY TURN WAS SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH TO WARRANT A PHONE CALL FROM THE LOS ANGELES AREA SUPVR TO LAX TWR IN AN EFFORT TO RECTIFY THE SIT. FAA MGMNT AT SCT HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF THE PROB BUT ARE APPARENTLY MORE CONCERNED WITH DEP DELAYS THAN WITH SAFETY. SOLUTIONS: TERMINATE SIMULTANEOUS DEPS AT LAX UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A NEW PROC IS DEVELOPED THAT WILL ENSURE PROMPT TURNS. DISSEMINATE A NOTAM THAT WILL EMPHASIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF A PROMPT TURN IN ACCORDANCE WITH SID. REQUIRE LAX TWR TO ISSUE TURN INSTRUCTIONS TO PLTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR ALLEGED THAT THE UCR RESPONSE INDICATED THE SIMULTANEOUS DEP PROCS WERE LEGAL AND WITHIN GUIDELINES. RPTR THOUGHT THE WAIVER FOR SIMULTANEOUS DEP OPS REQUIRED THE RWY 25 DEPS TO START THEIR TURN WITHIN 2 MI OF THE ARPT AND WASN'T SURE HOW THIS RELATED DISTANCE WISE TO THE SMO RADIAL DEPICTED IN THE SID. RPTR WAS NOT SURE THAT THIS IS AN FLC PROB WITH TURNS NOT BEING MADE AS PROMPTLY AS THEY SHOULD BE AT THE SMO RADIAL. RPTR SAID DCS ARE AWARE OF THE PROB AND ARE VERY OBSERVANT THAT THE TURNS ARE MADE TO AVERT CONFLICTS WITH THE RWY 24 DEPS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.