37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 367024 |
Time | |
Date | 199704 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sea |
State Reference | WA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sea |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | SA-227 AC Metro III |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach ground : parked |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Airbus Industrie Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : straight in approach : visual arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8620 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 367024 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 3200 flight time type : 1700 |
ASRS Report | 366872 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : far other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
We were on left downwind for seatac's runway 34, about 7 mi away from the airport. Visibility was reported at 10 mi with rain showers. We were in the rain all of downwind. About abeam the numbers, we were given vector of 130 degrees from 150 degrees. This put us on a path that would intercept final just south of the mall (see diagram). We were given the mall visual and we immediately started a left turn. At that point we had not called (insight) any traffic, nor been informed of any traffic. As we started to cross the extended centerline we saw traffic on our TCASII just under 3 mi and about 400 ft lower, at 3 O'clock. We slowed our descent and continued the turn. As we rolled level the airbus was about 700 ft lower and slightly behind us, at about 1-2 mi. Looking back, maybe we shouldn't have accepted the mall visual or we could have told the controller we would cross centerline. However, we assumed he knew our heading and position and knew there was no way to make a 150 degree course change from our position and not cross centerline. Also, we were more concerned about avoiding the traffic than talking on the radio. I believe the lateness of the visual clearance combined with our heading and us not having traffic in sight caused this. Supplemental information from acn 366872: vector too close in to complete turn on final without crossing runway 24R centerline. Late approach clearance. Did not call traffic to follow or advise any traffic. Spacing too close for safe flow. Should not have accepted clearance. Questioned ATC about traffic, should have questioned traffic. Advise ATC of crossing runway 34R due to late turn.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN SA227 CREW OVERFLIES THE CTRLINE OF RWY 34R WHEN CLRED FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 34L. CTLR HAD THEM TOO CLOSE FOR A TURN ONTO RWY 34L. CREW CITES ATC AND THEMSELVES IN THE ERROR. THEIR TCASI PICKED UP TFC ON APCH TO RWY 35R.
Narrative: WE WERE ON L DOWNWIND FOR SEATAC'S RWY 34, ABOUT 7 MI AWAY FROM THE ARPT. VISIBILITY WAS RPTED AT 10 MI WITH RAIN SHOWERS. WE WERE IN THE RAIN ALL OF DOWNWIND. ABOUT ABEAM THE NUMBERS, WE WERE GIVEN VECTOR OF 130 DEGS FROM 150 DEGS. THIS PUT US ON A PATH THAT WOULD INTERCEPT FINAL JUST S OF THE MALL (SEE DIAGRAM). WE WERE GIVEN THE MALL VISUAL AND WE IMMEDIATELY STARTED A L TURN. AT THAT POINT WE HAD NOT CALLED (INSIGHT) ANY TFC, NOR BEEN INFORMED OF ANY TFC. AS WE STARTED TO CROSS THE EXTENDED CTRLINE WE SAW TFC ON OUR TCASII JUST UNDER 3 MI AND ABOUT 400 FT LOWER, AT 3 O'CLOCK. WE SLOWED OUR DSCNT AND CONTINUED THE TURN. AS WE ROLLED LEVEL THE AIRBUS WAS ABOUT 700 FT LOWER AND SLIGHTLY BEHIND US, AT ABOUT 1-2 MI. LOOKING BACK, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ACCEPTED THE MALL VISUAL OR WE COULD HAVE TOLD THE CTLR WE WOULD CROSS CTRLINE. HOWEVER, WE ASSUMED HE KNEW OUR HEADING AND POS AND KNEW THERE WAS NO WAY TO MAKE A 150 DEG COURSE CHANGE FROM OUR POS AND NOT CROSS CTRLINE. ALSO, WE WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT AVOIDING THE TFC THAN TALKING ON THE RADIO. I BELIEVE THE LATENESS OF THE VISUAL CLRNC COMBINED WITH OUR HEADING AND US NOT HAVING TFC IN SIGHT CAUSED THIS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 366872: VECTOR TOO CLOSE IN TO COMPLETE TURN ON FINAL WITHOUT XING RWY 24R CTRLINE. LATE APCH CLRNC. DID NOT CALL TFC TO FOLLOW OR ADVISE ANY TFC. SPACING TOO CLOSE FOR SAFE FLOW. SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCEPTED CLRNC. QUESTIONED ATC ABOUT TFC, SHOULD HAVE QUESTIONED TFC. ADVISE ATC OF XING RWY 34R DUE TO LATE TURN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.