37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 367022 |
Time | |
Date | 199704 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ctr |
State Reference | MA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14000 msl bound upper : 14750 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zbw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Saab-Scania Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 205 flight time total : 9625 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 367022 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 300 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
An air carrier a B737 was level at 13000 ft and told higher reference traffic, saab at 14000 ft. The B737 crew called us in sight prior to our visual acquisition of them. The TA and the transmission to them to climb through our altitude came at same time. We then acquired the B737 visually as they were being told to maintain visual separation. The next transmission was informing us of their intent to which I responded roger and they should pass behind us. By saying that I was trying to inform them that our 280 KIAS cruise speed and their climb speed would result in a cpa of collision course if they did not plan accordingly. They proceeded to climb rapidly right at us resulting in a TCASII RA of 'climb' and a vsi indication of 1500 FPM or better to avoid collision. I informed ZBW we were climbing in response to our TCASII RA. We climbed 750 ft above our altitude to avoid collision and when issued 'clear of conflict' we descended back to 14000 ft. The air carrier a jet clearly violated their clearance to maintain visual separation! Later that same day, same scenario was developing with MD80 and they climbed gradually and went behind us and it was perfect. I admit we were both (first officer and myself) uneasy when second situation was developing, but was executed flawlessly by the air carrier B crew. 2 months earlier feb/xx/97, another air carrier a B737 did the same as this one did and climbed right at us on the same climb through and maintain visual separation clearance resulting in an RA, however this crew was even more naive then apr/yy/97, air carrier a crew as they said 'we got a TCASII RA on that!' after they caused it. One could surmise a problem at air carrier a training on B737, not a very fast jet versus air carrier B on MD80 a faster jet that climbs up through behind even a 'non jet' aircraft. The inability of the air carrier B737 crew's to plot cpa's and proceed accordingly is becoming most disconcerting. (Apr/yy/97, was my birthday and I was too close to not seeing it through.) this event was reported to ZBW who washed their hands of it because when it was issued it met their criteria.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A SAAB 340 CLBS TO AVOID AN ACR B737 WHICH IS PASSING HIM WITH VISUAL SEPARATION. PLT COMPLAINS THAT WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME SUCH A SIT OCCURRED WITH SAME ACR. ZBW GAVE CLRNC FOR THE CLB USING VISUAL SEPARATION.
Narrative: AN ACR A B737 WAS LEVEL AT 13000 FT AND TOLD HIGHER REF TFC, SAAB AT 14000 FT. THE B737 CREW CALLED US IN SIGHT PRIOR TO OUR VISUAL ACQUISITION OF THEM. THE TA AND THE XMISSION TO THEM TO CLB THROUGH OUR ALT CAME AT SAME TIME. WE THEN ACQUIRED THE B737 VISUALLY AS THEY WERE BEING TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION. THE NEXT XMISSION WAS INFORMING US OF THEIR INTENT TO WHICH I RESPONDED ROGER AND THEY SHOULD PASS BEHIND US. BY SAYING THAT I WAS TRYING TO INFORM THEM THAT OUR 280 KIAS CRUISE SPD AND THEIR CLB SPD WOULD RESULT IN A CPA OF COLLISION COURSE IF THEY DID NOT PLAN ACCORDINGLY. THEY PROCEEDED TO CLB RAPIDLY RIGHT AT US RESULTING IN A TCASII RA OF 'CLB' AND A VSI INDICATION OF 1500 FPM OR BETTER TO AVOID COLLISION. I INFORMED ZBW WE WERE CLBING IN RESPONSE TO OUR TCASII RA. WE CLBED 750 FT ABOVE OUR ALT TO AVOID COLLISION AND WHEN ISSUED 'CLR OF CONFLICT' WE DSNDED BACK TO 14000 FT. THE ACR A JET CLRLY VIOLATED THEIR CLRNC TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION! LATER THAT SAME DAY, SAME SCENARIO WAS DEVELOPING WITH MD80 AND THEY CLBED GRADUALLY AND WENT BEHIND US AND IT WAS PERFECT. I ADMIT WE WERE BOTH (FO AND MYSELF) UNEASY WHEN SECOND SIT WAS DEVELOPING, BUT WAS EXECUTED FLAWLESSLY BY THE ACR B CREW. 2 MONTHS EARLIER FEB/XX/97, ANOTHER ACR A B737 DID THE SAME AS THIS ONE DID AND CLBED RIGHT AT US ON THE SAME CLB THROUGH AND MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION CLRNC RESULTING IN AN RA, HOWEVER THIS CREW WAS EVEN MORE NAIVE THEN APR/YY/97, ACR A CREW AS THEY SAID 'WE GOT A TCASII RA ON THAT!' AFTER THEY CAUSED IT. ONE COULD SURMISE A PROB AT ACR A TRAINING ON B737, NOT A VERY FAST JET VERSUS ACR B ON MD80 A FASTER JET THAT CLBS UP THROUGH BEHIND EVEN A 'NON JET' ACFT. THE INABILITY OF THE ACR B737 CREW'S TO PLOT CPA'S AND PROCEED ACCORDINGLY IS BECOMING MOST DISCONCERTING. (APR/YY/97, WAS MY BIRTHDAY AND I WAS TOO CLOSE TO NOT SEEING IT THROUGH.) THIS EVENT WAS RPTED TO ZBW WHO WASHED THEIR HANDS OF IT BECAUSE WHEN IT WAS ISSUED IT MET THEIR CRITERIA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.