37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 376773 |
Time | |
Date | 199708 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : byp |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11600 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zfw |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 24000 |
ASRS Report | 376773 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 37 flight time total : 4200 flight time type : 37 |
ASRS Report | 376960 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : far other anomaly other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Our flight had been given a clearance to cross karla intersection at 11000 ft at 250 KTS. Approaching 12000 ft and 7 DME from bonham VOR, ZFW asked if we were at 250 KTS. We replied 'no, we're not at karla yet.' the aircraft was at 330 KTS at this point and the controller said 'maintain 12000 ft.' we were already going through 11800 ft with the spoilers extended. I selected altitude hold and retracted the spoilers then selected vertical speed up to regain altitude to get to 12000 ft. Our altimeter stopped at approximately 11600 ft, then as we approached karla we were back at 12000 ft. However, our speed was about 280 KTS due to the retraction of the spoilers and the normal acceleration from the reduced drag. The aircraft would have made the original crossing clearance had we been left alone. It was my plan to get to altitude with the spoilers extended and let the airspeed bleed off and if necessary extend slats to meet the speed restr. If the controller was worried about our crossing he should have questioned much sooner. With close to 18000 hours in DC9/MD80's I'm better qualified than the ATC controller to know where and how I can put one. The ATC system has lost a lot since fewer controllers have flying experience. They need more familiarization time at the very least.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MD80 FLC CROSS THE FIX AT KARLA ABOVE THE ASSIGNED AIRSPD. THE FLC FEELS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE CROSSED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE ORIGINAL, MORE RESTRICTIVE CLRNC. HOWEVER, THE NEW CLRNC REQUIRED SEVERAL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE AUTOFLT SYS AND ACFT FLT CTLS AND THE FLC CROSSED TOO FAST.
Narrative: OUR FLT HAD BEEN GIVEN A CLRNC TO CROSS KARLA INTXN AT 11000 FT AT 250 KTS. APCHING 12000 FT AND 7 DME FROM BONHAM VOR, ZFW ASKED IF WE WERE AT 250 KTS. WE REPLIED 'NO, WE'RE NOT AT KARLA YET.' THE ACFT WAS AT 330 KTS AT THIS POINT AND THE CTLR SAID 'MAINTAIN 12000 FT.' WE WERE ALREADY GOING THROUGH 11800 FT WITH THE SPOILERS EXTENDED. I SELECTED ALT HOLD AND RETRACTED THE SPOILERS THEN SELECTED VERT SPD UP TO REGAIN ALT TO GET TO 12000 FT. OUR ALTIMETER STOPPED AT APPROX 11600 FT, THEN AS WE APCHED KARLA WE WERE BACK AT 12000 FT. HOWEVER, OUR SPD WAS ABOUT 280 KTS DUE TO THE RETRACTION OF THE SPOILERS AND THE NORMAL ACCELERATION FROM THE REDUCED DRAG. THE ACFT WOULD HAVE MADE THE ORIGINAL XING CLRNC HAD WE BEEN LEFT ALONE. IT WAS MY PLAN TO GET TO ALT WITH THE SPOILERS EXTENDED AND LET THE AIRSPD BLEED OFF AND IF NECESSARY EXTEND SLATS TO MEET THE SPD RESTR. IF THE CTLR WAS WORRIED ABOUT OUR XING HE SHOULD HAVE QUESTIONED MUCH SOONER. WITH CLOSE TO 18000 HRS IN DC9/MD80'S I'M BETTER QUALIFIED THAN THE ATC CTLR TO KNOW WHERE AND HOW I CAN PUT ONE. THE ATC SYS HAS LOST A LOT SINCE FEWER CTLRS HAVE FLYING EXPERIENCE. THEY NEED MORE FAMILIARIZATION TIME AT THE VERY LEAST.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.