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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 378826 |
Time | |
Date | 199708 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : lax |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 25000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 378826 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 378491 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Aircraft |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Cleared for civet 1 arrival and in contact with socal/lax approach flight was 2 mi east of arnes at 12000 ft assigned by ATC. Controller told flight to hold at arnes as published as emergency was in progress at lax and maintain 12000 ft until EAC of AM48Z. First officer programmed FMC's for arnes holding by line selecting the arnes waypoint to the scratchpad and landing it in the hold page. The holding pattern depicted on the CRT showed a standard holding pattern and because of the short distance to the fix, the aircraft entered the holding pattern while being slowed to holding speed of 210 KTS. As the r- hand turn was commenced, both pilots noticed and commented on the fact that the published holding pattern showed l- hand turns and as communications with approach control were about to address the wrong turn, the controller told the flight that the holding pattern was left turns and gave us an immediate turn for a vector back to the holding fix (arnes) to re-enter the pattern without comment. Since all missed approach holding patterns in the FMC database show the correct pattern turn when the arnes waypoint was selected on the hold page, and due to the closeness of the fix when the clearance was received, the crew presupposed that the depicted pattern turns were correct and the FMS executed same until the holding pattern was crosschecked with the published arrival page. Apparently, the holding patterns for arrival waypoints are not stored in the database as published but as standard patterns, thus making confirmation with the commercial chart's published arrival mandatory. This is contrary to the published missed approach holding patterns depicted in the database which show the proper turn for the depicted pattern. One cannot assume that all waypoints in the FMC database with an associated holding pattern will show the correct pattern turns and therefore must be verified. Supplemental information from acn 378491: I went to the hold page and proceeded to page 2. I entered our hold instructions and executed. Because we were already at arnes, I did not have time to look at the approach sheet in the clip on the window. Because so many of our holding procedures are depicted correctly, I assumed the standard procedure of right turns was correct.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757-200 ENTERS THE HOLDING PATTERN AT ARNES INTXN WITH A R TURN AS PER THE FMC DATABASE AS SELECTED BY THE FLC. THE 'PUBLISHED' PATTERN CALLS FOR A L TURN ENTRY. APCH CTLR CATCHES THEIR ERROR AND GIVES THEM A NEW HDG FOR THE L PATTERN. RPTRS CITE COMPANY POLICY OF ENTERING STANDARD R-HAND TURNS FOR ARR WAYPOINTS IN THE DATABASE, EVEN IF NOT CORRECT.
Narrative: CLRED FOR CIVET 1 ARR AND IN CONTACT WITH SOCAL/LAX APCH FLT WAS 2 MI E OF ARNES AT 12000 FT ASSIGNED BY ATC. CTLR TOLD FLT TO HOLD AT ARNES AS PUBLISHED AS EMER WAS IN PROGRESS AT LAX AND MAINTAIN 12000 FT UNTIL EAC OF AM48Z. FO PROGRAMMED FMC'S FOR ARNES HOLDING BY LINE SELECTING THE ARNES WAYPOINT TO THE SCRATCHPAD AND LNDG IT IN THE HOLD PAGE. THE HOLDING PATTERN DEPICTED ON THE CRT SHOWED A STANDARD HOLDING PATTERN AND BECAUSE OF THE SHORT DISTANCE TO THE FIX, THE ACFT ENTERED THE HOLDING PATTERN WHILE BEING SLOWED TO HOLDING SPD OF 210 KTS. AS THE R- HAND TURN WAS COMMENCED, BOTH PLTS NOTICED AND COMMENTED ON THE FACT THAT THE PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERN SHOWED L- HAND TURNS AND AS COMS WITH APCH CTL WERE ABOUT TO ADDRESS THE WRONG TURN, THE CTLR TOLD THE FLT THAT THE HOLDING PATTERN WAS L TURNS AND GAVE US AN IMMEDIATE TURN FOR A VECTOR BACK TO THE HOLDING FIX (ARNES) TO RE-ENTER THE PATTERN WITHOUT COMMENT. SINCE ALL MISSED APCH HOLDING PATTERNS IN THE FMC DATABASE SHOW THE CORRECT PATTERN TURN WHEN THE ARNES WAYPOINT WAS SELECTED ON THE HOLD PAGE, AND DUE TO THE CLOSENESS OF THE FIX WHEN THE CLRNC WAS RECEIVED, THE CREW PRESUPPOSED THAT THE DEPICTED PATTERN TURNS WERE CORRECT AND THE FMS EXECUTED SAME UNTIL THE HOLDING PATTERN WAS XCHKED WITH THE PUBLISHED ARR PAGE. APPARENTLY, THE HOLDING PATTERNS FOR ARR WAYPOINTS ARE NOT STORED IN THE DATABASE AS PUBLISHED BUT AS STANDARD PATTERNS, THUS MAKING CONFIRMATION WITH THE COMMERCIAL CHART'S PUBLISHED ARR MANDATORY. THIS IS CONTRARY TO THE PUBLISHED MISSED APCH HOLDING PATTERNS DEPICTED IN THE DATABASE WHICH SHOW THE PROPER TURN FOR THE DEPICTED PATTERN. ONE CANNOT ASSUME THAT ALL WAYPOINTS IN THE FMC DATABASE WITH AN ASSOCIATED HOLDING PATTERN WILL SHOW THE CORRECT PATTERN TURNS AND THEREFORE MUST BE VERIFIED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 378491: I WENT TO THE HOLD PAGE AND PROCEEDED TO PAGE 2. I ENTERED OUR HOLD INSTRUCTIONS AND EXECUTED. BECAUSE WE WERE ALREADY AT ARNES, I DID NOT HAVE TIME TO LOOK AT THE APCH SHEET IN THE CLIP ON THE WINDOW. BECAUSE SO MANY OF OUR HOLDING PROCS ARE DEPICTED CORRECTLY, I ASSUMED THE STANDARD PROC OF R TURNS WAS CORRECT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.