37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 385099 |
Time | |
Date | 199711 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sat |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sat |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude cruise other |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute airway : sat |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
ASRS Report | 385099 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
ASRS Report | 384906 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : declared emergency |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
Between the proverbial rock and a hard place. The 'rock' in this case was conflicting traffic, the 'hard place' was thunderstorm cells. We were on a flight from sat to ord. The information we flight planned with showed sigmets for embedded thunderstorms in the area and PIREPS of moderate mixed ice. On the departure we were given a heading to intercept the SID radial and an altitude clearance of 13000 ft. 2 thunderstorm cells popped up on the radar screen. Our company policy is to avoid this kind of cell by 5 NM or more. The departure controller was talking non stop to other airplanes preventing us from either requesting a WX deviation turn or declaring an emergency if necessary. I had the choice of either entering the cell and possibly having the airplane torn apart, or turning to avoid the cell (by maybe 1 NM by now) and hoping that TCASII and/or the radar controller would warn us of other traffic. I chose the latter. I didn't see any TCASII traffic displayed and turned right. My first officer was finally able to advise the controller. We were told to level at 12000 ft (due to same direction parallel traffic at 13000 ft), and were reprimanded for not getting permission before turning. Unless I am mistaken, we followed far guidance: ask permission, declare an emergency if necessary, if unable otherwise, for safety of flight deviate and notify ATC as soon as possible. Perhaps routine 'progress' communication from controllers as to where we have traffic nearby when aircraft are known to be in IMC would help in these sits.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG ACFT ON DEP HEADING VECTOR AND SID HAD TO DEVIATE DUE TO SEVERE WX AHEAD. FLC ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT DEP CTLR TO REQUEST DEV, BUT FREQ WAS IN CONSTANT USE AND FLC COULDN'T COMMUNICATE WITH THE CTLR SO THEY HAD TO DEVIATE WITHOUT PRIOR CLRNC, EXERCISING CAPT EMER AUTH.
Narrative: BTWN THE PROVERBIAL ROCK AND A HARD PLACE. THE 'ROCK' IN THIS CASE WAS CONFLICTING TFC, THE 'HARD PLACE' WAS TSTM CELLS. WE WERE ON A FLT FROM SAT TO ORD. THE INFO WE FLT PLANNED WITH SHOWED SIGMETS FOR EMBEDDED TSTMS IN THE AREA AND PIREPS OF MODERATE MIXED ICE. ON THE DEP WE WERE GIVEN A HEADING TO INTERCEPT THE SID RADIAL AND AN ALT CLRNC OF 13000 FT. 2 TSTM CELLS POPPED UP ON THE RADAR SCREEN. OUR COMPANY POLICY IS TO AVOID THIS KIND OF CELL BY 5 NM OR MORE. THE DEP CTLR WAS TALKING NON STOP TO OTHER AIRPLANES PREVENTING US FROM EITHER REQUESTING A WX DEV TURN OR DECLARING AN EMER IF NECESSARY. I HAD THE CHOICE OF EITHER ENTERING THE CELL AND POSSIBLY HAVING THE AIRPLANE TORN APART, OR TURNING TO AVOID THE CELL (BY MAYBE 1 NM BY NOW) AND HOPING THAT TCASII AND/OR THE RADAR CTLR WOULD WARN US OF OTHER TFC. I CHOSE THE LATTER. I DIDN'T SEE ANY TCASII TFC DISPLAYED AND TURNED R. MY FO WAS FINALLY ABLE TO ADVISE THE CTLR. WE WERE TOLD TO LEVEL AT 12000 FT (DUE TO SAME DIRECTION PARALLEL TFC AT 13000 FT), AND WERE REPRIMANDED FOR NOT GETTING PERMISSION BEFORE TURNING. UNLESS I AM MISTAKEN, WE FOLLOWED FAR GUIDANCE: ASK PERMISSION, DECLARE AN EMER IF NECESSARY, IF UNABLE OTHERWISE, FOR SAFETY OF FLT DEVIATE AND NOTIFY ATC ASAP. PERHAPS ROUTINE 'PROGRESS' COM FROM CTLRS AS TO WHERE WE HAVE TFC NEARBY WHEN ACFT ARE KNOWN TO BE IN IMC WOULD HELP IN THESE SITS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.