37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 385636 |
Time | |
Date | 199711 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ott |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 7000 |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : bwi tracon : dca |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Gulfstream IV |
Operating Under FAR Part | other : other |
Flight Phase | other |
Route In Use | arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Experience | controller military : 5 controller radar : 20 |
ASRS Report | 385636 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : investigated |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 15000 vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
The aircraft in question are aircraft #1 and aircraft #2. Aircraft #2 was in the hold at ott at 7000 ft. Aircraft #1 was in 360 degree turn and descending to 6000 ft because it was one of the first I had to 'spin' for bwi. Bwi doesn't take the handoff you 'spin,' plain and simple. Now it was getting complicated. Both aircraft had TCASII although I wasn't aware aircraft #2 did at the time. I recognized a potential problem between the 2 and issued a turn to aircraft #1. Had to call it a couple of times because I thought the radios weren't working right, really they weren't. Aircraft #1 denied the turn and says it's climbing to an RA. I turned aircraft #2, had to call him twice to get the acknowledgement because aircraft #1 has now put me in a bind. I have to turn somebody. We had aircraft #1 call on the phone and the pilot was satisfied that there was no separation problem. I never believed I had lost separation. No conflict alert went off. The plot doesn't even show it activating. 8 days after the incident they take my ticket because it's determined that less than 3 mi were between aircraft. Review of plots and tapes reveal an interesting scenario. Although the controller at bwi did not take the first handoff via the ARTS, it's heard on the tape that he actually verbally took it. Of course, because the speaker was malfunctioning I never heard it. Had I not started 'spinning' the first one this would not have happened. Equipment did not let me do what I'm paid to do. My tools of the trade failed miserably and somebody could have gotten hurt. The plot shows that 5 seconds is the difference between having this system error and not. I'll bet it took me at least that to try and get through to both pilots. Bad radios and overreactive electronics (TCASII) are to blame. I saw the situation and was desperately trying to correct it. I'm not afraid to accept responsibility when I'm in error, however, there's a lot more to this than just I made a mistake.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LOSS OF SEPARATION BTWN AN ACR B737 IN A CIRCLE TURN DSNDING TO 6000 FT AND A MIL G4 IN A HOLDING PATTERN AT 7000 FT.
Narrative: THE ACFT IN QUESTION ARE ACFT #1 AND ACFT #2. ACFT #2 WAS IN THE HOLD AT OTT AT 7000 FT. ACFT #1 WAS IN 360 DEG TURN AND DSNDING TO 6000 FT BECAUSE IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST I HAD TO 'SPIN' FOR BWI. BWI DOESN'T TAKE THE HDOF YOU 'SPIN,' PLAIN AND SIMPLE. NOW IT WAS GETTING COMPLICATED. BOTH ACFT HAD TCASII ALTHOUGH I WASN'T AWARE ACFT #2 DID AT THE TIME. I RECOGNIZED A POTENTIAL PROB BTWN THE 2 AND ISSUED A TURN TO ACFT #1. HAD TO CALL IT A COUPLE OF TIMES BECAUSE I THOUGHT THE RADIOS WEREN'T WORKING RIGHT, REALLY THEY WEREN'T. ACFT #1 DENIED THE TURN AND SAYS IT'S CLBING TO AN RA. I TURNED ACFT #2, HAD TO CALL HIM TWICE TO GET THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BECAUSE ACFT #1 HAS NOW PUT ME IN A BIND. I HAVE TO TURN SOMEBODY. WE HAD ACFT #1 CALL ON THE PHONE AND THE PLT WAS SATISFIED THAT THERE WAS NO SEPARATION PROB. I NEVER BELIEVED I HAD LOST SEPARATION. NO CONFLICT ALERT WENT OFF. THE PLOT DOESN'T EVEN SHOW IT ACTIVATING. 8 DAYS AFTER THE INCIDENT THEY TAKE MY TICKET BECAUSE IT'S DETERMINED THAT LESS THAN 3 MI WERE BTWN ACFT. REVIEW OF PLOTS AND TAPES REVEAL AN INTERESTING SCENARIO. ALTHOUGH THE CTLR AT BWI DID NOT TAKE THE FIRST HDOF VIA THE ARTS, IT'S HEARD ON THE TAPE THAT HE ACTUALLY VERBALLY TOOK IT. OF COURSE, BECAUSE THE SPEAKER WAS MALFUNCTIONING I NEVER HEARD IT. HAD I NOT STARTED 'SPINNING' THE FIRST ONE THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. EQUIP DID NOT LET ME DO WHAT I'M PAID TO DO. MY TOOLS OF THE TRADE FAILED MISERABLY AND SOMEBODY COULD HAVE GOTTEN HURT. THE PLOT SHOWS THAT 5 SECONDS IS THE DIFFERENCE BTWN HAVING THIS SYS ERROR AND NOT. I'LL BET IT TOOK ME AT LEAST THAT TO TRY AND GET THROUGH TO BOTH PLTS. BAD RADIOS AND OVERREACTIVE ELECTRONICS (TCASII) ARE TO BLAME. I SAW THE SIT AND WAS DESPERATELY TRYING TO CORRECT IT. I'M NOT AFRAID TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY WHEN I'M IN ERROR, HOWEVER, THERE'S A LOT MORE TO THIS THAN JUST I MADE A MISTAKE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.