37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 393740 |
Time | |
Date | 199802 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pdz airport : ont |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8400 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ont tower : bos |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 7800 flight time type : 2600 |
ASRS Report | 393740 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 1800 |
ASRS Report | 393642 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 vertical : 800 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
At 7000 ft, our flight was given traffic at 10 O'clock position and 5 mi at 8000 ft. My first officer called it in sight (I thought I saw it too, but I was looking at a different aircraft). At that point, we were cleared to climb to 14000 ft (and to expedite through 11000 ft while maintaining visual separation from our 10 O'clock position traffic). I started to climb when I saw the actual traffic. We were approximately 3 mi apart when our flight passed through the traffic altitude of 8000 ft and approximately 8400 ft at 2 mi separation. We never received any TCASII warning and the other flight never deviated from their altitude. At the point of convergence, our vertical separation was more than 1000 ft. This was not in anyway a near miss but had we not slowed from 250 KTS to 210 KTS in a hurry (trading altitude for airspeed) our separation would have been a lot less. Both pilots, in a situation like this, should always make sure they are looking at the same traffic. If I had seen the actual traffic initially, I would not have elected to climb until the traffic had passed away from us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN DESIRED CLRNC BTWN A CLBING ACR AND ANOTHER ACFT LEVEL AT 8000 FT. FLC HAD ACCEPTED A VISUAL SEPARATION CLB.
Narrative: AT 7000 FT, OUR FLT WAS GIVEN TFC AT 10 O'CLOCK POS AND 5 MI AT 8000 FT. MY FO CALLED IT IN SIGHT (I THOUGHT I SAW IT TOO, BUT I WAS LOOKING AT A DIFFERENT ACFT). AT THAT POINT, WE WERE CLRED TO CLB TO 14000 FT (AND TO EXPEDITE THROUGH 11000 FT WHILE MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION FROM OUR 10 O'CLOCK POS TFC). I STARTED TO CLB WHEN I SAW THE ACTUAL TFC. WE WERE APPROX 3 MI APART WHEN OUR FLT PASSED THROUGH THE TFC ALT OF 8000 FT AND APPROX 8400 FT AT 2 MI SEPARATION. WE NEVER RECEIVED ANY TCASII WARNING AND THE OTHER FLT NEVER DEVIATED FROM THEIR ALT. AT THE POINT OF CONVERGENCE, OUR VERT SEPARATION WAS MORE THAN 1000 FT. THIS WAS NOT IN ANYWAY A NEAR MISS BUT HAD WE NOT SLOWED FROM 250 KTS TO 210 KTS IN A HURRY (TRADING ALT FOR AIRSPD) OUR SEPARATION WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT LESS. BOTH PLTS, IN A SIT LIKE THIS, SHOULD ALWAYS MAKE SURE THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE SAME TFC. IF I HAD SEEN THE ACTUAL TFC INITIALLY, I WOULD NOT HAVE ELECTED TO CLB UNTIL THE TFC HAD PASSED AWAY FROM US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.