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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 395720 |
Time | |
Date | 199803 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lcu |
State Reference | UT |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14500 msl bound upper : 14500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zlc tower : pit |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Chancellor 414A & C414 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : instructor |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 2800 flight time type : 100 |
ASRS Report | 395720 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : private pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : exited penetrated airspace |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were level at 14500 ft VFR (some clouds in the distance approximately 50 mi ahead). In radar contact with ZLC receiving VFR flight following to napa, ca. Could hear other aircraft talking, but center had not spoken with us in about 15- 20 mins. When I can only hear other aircraft talking and not center I get leery. Tried several times (maybe a dozen over a 10 min period) to get slc with no luck. The C414 is well equipped, so we idented ourselves using both vors and a LORAN to be approximately 5 mi north of a restr area (R6404). Since center was very doubtful I found an advisory frequency for clover approach on the sectional and used our #2 communication to try them. They responded immediately to our transmission and told us we were inside R6404. I asked for vectors and altitude to get us out of their way as soon as possible and they obliged. We checked our position again and still showed ourselves north of the area. I explained this to clover and apologized for the trouble. She kept us on radar and eventually turned us to ZLC explaining that she understood what I was telling her. Rest of flight went without occurrence. Because we were over a broken layer I could not make a 100% positive identify by ground based visual landmarks and had the vors to rely on for positional awareness. The vors had been checked against each other in a dual ground check 2 weeks prior and showed to be within the +/-4 degree tolerance, so I am still unsure how our position differed so much with radar's. More attention by center would have helped us certainly, and we also could have filed an IFR flight plan rather than rely on flight following, which may be our course of action in the future. Thank you for your time and I hope this report helps your organization.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A C414 PLT, ATTEMPTING TO NAV BY GND REF, FLIES INTO A RESTR AREA. AN APCH CTLR CONFIRMS THEIR LOCATION AND PROVIDES EXIT VECTORS.
Narrative: WE WERE LEVEL AT 14500 FT VFR (SOME CLOUDS IN THE DISTANCE APPROX 50 MI AHEAD). IN RADAR CONTACT WITH ZLC RECEIVING VFR FLT FOLLOWING TO NAPA, CA. COULD HEAR OTHER ACFT TALKING, BUT CTR HAD NOT SPOKEN WITH US IN ABOUT 15- 20 MINS. WHEN I CAN ONLY HEAR OTHER ACFT TALKING AND NOT CTR I GET LEERY. TRIED SEVERAL TIMES (MAYBE A DOZEN OVER A 10 MIN PERIOD) TO GET SLC WITH NO LUCK. THE C414 IS WELL EQUIPPED, SO WE IDENTED OURSELVES USING BOTH VORS AND A LORAN TO BE APPROX 5 MI N OF A RESTR AREA (R6404). SINCE CTR WAS VERY DOUBTFUL I FOUND AN ADVISORY FREQ FOR CLOVER APCH ON THE SECTIONAL AND USED OUR #2 COM TO TRY THEM. THEY RESPONDED IMMEDIATELY TO OUR XMISSION AND TOLD US WE WERE INSIDE R6404. I ASKED FOR VECTORS AND ALT TO GET US OUT OF THEIR WAY ASAP AND THEY OBLIGED. WE CHKED OUR POS AGAIN AND STILL SHOWED OURSELVES N OF THE AREA. I EXPLAINED THIS TO CLOVER AND APOLOGIZED FOR THE TROUBLE. SHE KEPT US ON RADAR AND EVENTUALLY TURNED US TO ZLC EXPLAINING THAT SHE UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS TELLING HER. REST OF FLT WENT WITHOUT OCCURRENCE. BECAUSE WE WERE OVER A BROKEN LAYER I COULD NOT MAKE A 100% POSITIVE IDENT BY GND BASED VISUAL LANDMARKS AND HAD THE VORS TO RELY ON FOR POSITIONAL AWARENESS. THE VORS HAD BEEN CHKED AGAINST EACH OTHER IN A DUAL GND CHK 2 WKS PRIOR AND SHOWED TO BE WITHIN THE +/-4 DEG TOLERANCE, SO I AM STILL UNSURE HOW OUR POS DIFFERED SO MUCH WITH RADAR'S. MORE ATTN BY CTR WOULD HAVE HELPED US CERTAINLY, AND WE ALSO COULD HAVE FILED AN IFR FLT PLAN RATHER THAN RELY ON FLT FOLLOWING, WHICH MAY BE OUR COURSE OF ACTION IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND I HOPE THIS RPT HELPS YOUR ORGANIZATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.