An arriving B757 received some unexpected delaying vectors while on approach to jfk. The flight was ...

Attributes
ACN	396400
Time
Date	199803
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : jfk
State Reference	NY
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : jfk
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach descent other
Route In Use	arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	other personnel other
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8720 flight time type : 381
ASRS Report	396400
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

Prior to 50 mi west we (flight bcn direct jfk) received a re- release to jfk with a phl alternate. Our planned arrival fuel at jfk was 5100 pounds with 3900 pounds alternate fuel to phl. I do not recall fuel onboard at the time of re-release but it was in excess of that required by the re-release. The captain sent an ACARS message to jfk dispatch inquiring on conditions at jfk and delays, if any. We received the following reply: runway 22L ILS 6000+ ft RVR no delays. We received very expedient ATC handling until approximately calverton (CCC) on the plymm four arrival. At that time we were vectored off the arrival. The fuel onboard was still in excess of that required to arrive at jfk in accordance with the re-release. Again, the captain contacted dispatch directly (129.10) and was advised minimal if any delay. As we continued the vectoring for the ILS runway 22L it appeared to all crew members that our present westerly vector would be directly to intercept the final approach course. It was at this point we received a turn to the south to take us south of some WX then back in line to final. I believe it was at this time the captain consulted the other first officer (PF) as to the proper phraseology and meaning of 'minimum fuel advisory.' we were all in agreement that it was appropriate and did not constitute an emergency. Upon advising ATC that we were making a minimum fuel advisory there was some discussion wherein the captain restated he was not declaring an emergency but could not accept further delays. When we were given frequency change to tower we were advised that fire rescue was standing by our arrival. Once again a discussion followed wherein the captain repeated he had not declared an emergency. The tower acknowledged this and stated that he understood but he had his own procedures to follow or something to that effect. The approach and landing were completed without incident.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN ARRIVING B757 RECEIVED SOME UNEXPECTED DELAYING VECTORS WHILE ON APCH TO JFK. THE FLT WAS ARRIVING FROM AN OVERSEAS DEP ARPT. A MINIMUM FUEL ADVISORY WAS ISSUED BY THE PIC TO ATC. UPON SWITCHING TO TWR PIC WAS ADVISED THAT TWR HAD CALLED OUT THE EMER GND EQUIP SINCE 'HE HAD HIS OWN PROCS TO FOLLOW.'

Narrative: PRIOR TO 50 MI W WE (FLT BCN DIRECT JFK) RECEIVED A RE- RELEASE TO JFK WITH A PHL ALTERNATE. OUR PLANNED ARR FUEL AT JFK WAS 5100 LBS WITH 3900 LBS ALTERNATE FUEL TO PHL. I DO NOT RECALL FUEL ONBOARD AT THE TIME OF RE-RELEASE BUT IT WAS IN EXCESS OF THAT REQUIRED BY THE RE-RELEASE. THE CAPT SENT AN ACARS MESSAGE TO JFK DISPATCH INQUIRING ON CONDITIONS AT JFK AND DELAYS, IF ANY. WE RECEIVED THE FOLLOWING REPLY: RWY 22L ILS 6000+ FT RVR NO DELAYS. WE RECEIVED VERY EXPEDIENT ATC HANDLING UNTIL APPROX CALVERTON (CCC) ON THE PLYMM FOUR ARR. AT THAT TIME WE WERE VECTORED OFF THE ARR. THE FUEL ONBOARD WAS STILL IN EXCESS OF THAT REQUIRED TO ARRIVE AT JFK IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RE-RELEASE. AGAIN, THE CAPT CONTACTED DISPATCH DIRECTLY (129.10) AND WAS ADVISED MINIMAL IF ANY DELAY. AS WE CONTINUED THE VECTORING FOR THE ILS RWY 22L IT APPEARED TO ALL CREW MEMBERS THAT OUR PRESENT WESTERLY VECTOR WOULD BE DIRECTLY TO INTERCEPT THE FINAL APCH COURSE. IT WAS AT THIS POINT WE RECEIVED A TURN TO THE S TO TAKE US S OF SOME WX THEN BACK IN LINE TO FINAL. I BELIEVE IT WAS AT THIS TIME THE CAPT CONSULTED THE OTHER FO (PF) AS TO THE PROPER PHRASEOLOGY AND MEANING OF 'MINIMUM FUEL ADVISORY.' WE WERE ALL IN AGREEMENT THAT IT WAS APPROPRIATE AND DID NOT CONSTITUTE AN EMER. UPON ADVISING ATC THAT WE WERE MAKING A MINIMUM FUEL ADVISORY THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION WHEREIN THE CAPT RESTATED HE WAS NOT DECLARING AN EMER BUT COULD NOT ACCEPT FURTHER DELAYS. WHEN WE WERE GIVEN FREQ CHANGE TO TWR WE WERE ADVISED THAT FIRE RESCUE WAS STANDING BY OUR ARR. ONCE AGAIN A DISCUSSION FOLLOWED WHEREIN THE CAPT REPEATED HE HAD NOT DECLARED AN EMER. THE TWR ACKNOWLEDGED THIS AND STATED THAT HE UNDERSTOOD BUT HE HAD HIS OWN PROCS TO FOLLOW OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. THE APCH AND LNDG WERE COMPLETED WITHOUT INCIDENT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.