37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 403531 |
Time | |
Date | 199805 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : oma |
State Reference | NE |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2400 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : oma |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | other other : other pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
ASRS Report | 403531 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 403530 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
During vectors for ILS runway 14R at oma, we were given 3000 ft and cleared to intercept on a 90 degree intercept. With the high winds from the southwest we began to intercept and descend to 2400 ft on the approach. The winds blew us well past the localizer. While reintercepting the localizer the controller told us to climb back to 3000 ft to intercept. We were in moderate turbulence and the autoplt kept disconnecting during vectors. We had already delayed to allow this WX to move through the area. It was not quite through though. Our altitude may have gone below the 2400 ft allowed on the approach. I am not sure. We were bouncing around pretty good at the point the controller stepped in. We got on course and GS and completed the approach and landing. In retrospect we could have waited 10-15 more mins to begin the approach and possibly avoided the remnants of WX. We could have diverted but didn't feel it was necessary. The major point is while given vectors that were not great for the existing winds we should not have initiated descent until we were sure we had intercepted the localizer. Also once we were blown through it we should have climbed back to 3000 ft ourselves. The controller probably was not aware the winds at 3000 ft were that strong. Basically we were trying to get in a little too soon. Next time we will either wait to begin the approach and maintain altitude until we are sure we are established on course. Supplemental information from acn 403530: I had started descent to 2400 ft to stay beneath cloud deck, during encounter with moderate turbulence and rain, however, once off localizer this was not an appropriate altitude and alert approach control suggested return to 3000 ft which we immediately accomplished. Contributing factors were recent thunderstorm passage, moderate turbulence and rain, stronger than anticipated winds, and my own desire to maintain visual conditions during turbulence encounter. First officer made all required callouts.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80. AFTER BEING GIVEN A POOR VECTOR TO FINAL, CREW OVERSHOT LOC COURSE ON VECTOR TO FINAL. THEY BEGAN DSCNT BEFORE THEY WERE ESTABLISHED ON THE LOC.
Narrative: DURING VECTORS FOR ILS RWY 14R AT OMA, WE WERE GIVEN 3000 FT AND CLRED TO INTERCEPT ON A 90 DEG INTERCEPT. WITH THE HIGH WINDS FROM THE SW WE BEGAN TO INTERCEPT AND DSND TO 2400 FT ON THE APCH. THE WINDS BLEW US WELL PAST THE LOC. WHILE REINTERCEPTING THE LOC THE CTLR TOLD US TO CLB BACK TO 3000 FT TO INTERCEPT. WE WERE IN MODERATE TURB AND THE AUTOPLT KEPT DISCONNECTING DURING VECTORS. WE HAD ALREADY DELAYED TO ALLOW THIS WX TO MOVE THROUGH THE AREA. IT WAS NOT QUITE THROUGH THOUGH. OUR ALT MAY HAVE GONE BELOW THE 2400 FT ALLOWED ON THE APCH. I AM NOT SURE. WE WERE BOUNCING AROUND PRETTY GOOD AT THE POINT THE CTLR STEPPED IN. WE GOT ON COURSE AND GS AND COMPLETED THE APCH AND LNDG. IN RETROSPECT WE COULD HAVE WAITED 10-15 MORE MINS TO BEGIN THE APCH AND POSSIBLY AVOIDED THE REMNANTS OF WX. WE COULD HAVE DIVERTED BUT DIDN'T FEEL IT WAS NECESSARY. THE MAJOR POINT IS WHILE GIVEN VECTORS THAT WERE NOT GREAT FOR THE EXISTING WINDS WE SHOULD NOT HAVE INITIATED DSCNT UNTIL WE WERE SURE WE HAD INTERCEPTED THE LOC. ALSO ONCE WE WERE BLOWN THROUGH IT WE SHOULD HAVE CLBED BACK TO 3000 FT OURSELVES. THE CTLR PROBABLY WAS NOT AWARE THE WINDS AT 3000 FT WERE THAT STRONG. BASICALLY WE WERE TRYING TO GET IN A LITTLE TOO SOON. NEXT TIME WE WILL EITHER WAIT TO BEGIN THE APCH AND MAINTAIN ALT UNTIL WE ARE SURE WE ARE ESTABLISHED ON COURSE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 403530: I HAD STARTED DSCNT TO 2400 FT TO STAY BENEATH CLOUD DECK, DURING ENCOUNTER WITH MODERATE TURB AND RAIN, HOWEVER, ONCE OFF LOC THIS WAS NOT AN APPROPRIATE ALT AND ALERT APCH CTL SUGGESTED RETURN TO 3000 FT WHICH WE IMMEDIATELY ACCOMPLISHED. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS WERE RECENT TSTM PASSAGE, MODERATE TURB AND RAIN, STRONGER THAN ANTICIPATED WINDS, AND MY OWN DESIRE TO MAINTAIN VISUAL CONDITIONS DURING TURB ENCOUNTER. FO MADE ALL REQUIRED CALLOUTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.