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A B767-300 crew wants clarification on what 'sufficient visual cues' means to the flight crew when seeing just the approach lights during the final approach segment of a CAT III approach into orly airport, paris, france, ory, first officer. Their manual did not contain all referenced material.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 420136 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199811 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ory |
| State Reference | FO |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | landing other |
| Route In Use | approach : straight in |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial |
| ASRS Report | 420136 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | other personnel other |
| ASRS Report | 420135 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
Location: paris orly final approach. I was the first officer on flight from mia to ory. The captain and I set up and briefed a CAT III approach to runway 7. The WX was calm winds, fog and RVR 07- 200M/225M/250M. At the OM/final control point (fcp), the tower reported the RVR 07-200/175/225, at which time I initiated a missed approach. En route to the holding, the WX was reported RVR 07-200/200/225 and we requested and received vectors for another CAT III to runway 7. Minimums for the approach were 200M. After the OM/fcp on the final segment, the tower reported RVR 07-200/175/350. We continued the approach because we were past the final control point and had the approach lights in sight due to the patchy ground fog. We are submitting this report because during the crew debrief after studying paris page 10-7Y we feel the wording is very ambiguous and request clarification. It leads you to believe that you cannot continue the approach past the fcp if the WX drops below minimums unless you have sufficient visual cues. What are sufficient visual cues? Also, ATC section or part 2 page france 2 para airport operations minimums, it refers to ATC pages series 600 jan operations one. Flight manual part 2 does not contain this section.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B767-300 CREW WANTS CLARIFICATION ON WHAT 'SUFFICIENT VISUAL CUES' MEANS TO THE FLC WHEN SEEING JUST THE APCH LIGHTS DURING THE FINAL APCH SEGMENT OF A CAT III APCH INTO ORLY ARPT, PARIS, FRANCE, ORY, FO. THEIR MANUAL DID NOT CONTAIN ALL REFED MATERIAL.
Narrative: LOCATION: PARIS ORLY FINAL APCH. I WAS THE FO ON FLT FROM MIA TO ORY. THE CAPT AND I SET UP AND BRIEFED A CAT III APCH TO RWY 7. THE WX WAS CALM WINDS, FOG AND RVR 07- 200M/225M/250M. AT THE OM/FINAL CTL POINT (FCP), THE TWR RPTED THE RVR 07-200/175/225, AT WHICH TIME I INITIATED A MISSED APCH. ENRTE TO THE HOLDING, THE WX WAS RPTED RVR 07-200/200/225 AND WE REQUESTED AND RECEIVED VECTORS FOR ANOTHER CAT III TO RWY 7. MINIMUMS FOR THE APCH WERE 200M. AFTER THE OM/FCP ON THE FINAL SEGMENT, THE TWR RPTED RVR 07-200/175/350. WE CONTINUED THE APCH BECAUSE WE WERE PAST THE FINAL CTL POINT AND HAD THE APCH LIGHTS IN SIGHT DUE TO THE PATCHY GND FOG. WE ARE SUBMITTING THIS RPT BECAUSE DURING THE CREW DEBRIEF AFTER STUDYING PARIS PAGE 10-7Y WE FEEL THE WORDING IS VERY AMBIGUOUS AND REQUEST CLARIFICATION. IT LEADS YOU TO BELIEVE THAT YOU CANNOT CONTINUE THE APCH PAST THE FCP IF THE WX DROPS BELOW MINIMUMS UNLESS YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT VISUAL CUES. WHAT ARE SUFFICIENT VISUAL CUES? ALSO, ATC SECTION OR PART 2 PAGE FRANCE 2 PARA ARPT OPS MINIMUMS, IT REFERS TO ATC PAGES SERIES 600 JAN OPS ONE. FLT MANUAL PART 2 DOES NOT CONTAIN THIS SECTION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.