37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 423412 |
Time | |
Date | 199812 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mco |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Brasilia EMB-120 All Series |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 1600 |
ASRS Report | 423412 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 423660 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 3000 vertical : 700 |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
At 8000 ft on a vector, I noticed traffic visually and on TCASII right below us at 7000 ft. Cockpit duties and the fact we were high distracted me, and we were issued a clearance to turn and maintain 7000 ft. Copilot read back clearance, and as I started the descent, I looked at TCASII and saw the traffic still close, though I also thought the turn would keep us clear. I queried the controller as I began descent, got an RA, pulled back up to 8000 ft. Controller said that someone may have answered for someone else, but when we got our descent clearance there was no 'break' or new call sign used by the controller. I believe that when the controller said maintain 7000 ft, he was talking to someone else but as far as we knew, was still talking to us. Supplemental information from acn 423660: we were being vectored for the ILS runway 35 approach at mco about 30 mi south of the field at 8000 ft and heading 360 degrees. Approach was very busy at the time. We were given a turn to 330 degrees and descent to 7000 ft. The controller hesitated a little with the descent clearance, like he was going to give us lower but decided on 7000 ft. We started the descent and turn, got a climb RA right away, turned off the autoplt and climbed back to 8000 ft. I advised approach we were climbing due to an RA and he said we were supposed to be at 8000 ft. I told him we were given a turn to 330 degrees and a descent to 7000 ft, and he said we must have taken someone else's clearance. Separation was about 900 ft and 2-3 mi. We got on the ground and called ATC and we both agreed separation wasn't critical and the incident was due to radio and traffic congestion. Thank you TCASII.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 AND E120 HAD LESS THAN LEGAL SEPARATION.
Narrative: AT 8000 FT ON A VECTOR, I NOTICED TFC VISUALLY AND ON TCASII RIGHT BELOW US AT 7000 FT. COCKPIT DUTIES AND THE FACT WE WERE HIGH DISTRACTED ME, AND WE WERE ISSUED A CLRNC TO TURN AND MAINTAIN 7000 FT. COPLT READ BACK CLRNC, AND AS I STARTED THE DSCNT, I LOOKED AT TCASII AND SAW THE TFC STILL CLOSE, THOUGH I ALSO THOUGHT THE TURN WOULD KEEP US CLR. I QUERIED THE CTLR AS I BEGAN DSCNT, GOT AN RA, PULLED BACK UP TO 8000 FT. CTLR SAID THAT SOMEONE MAY HAVE ANSWERED FOR SOMEONE ELSE, BUT WHEN WE GOT OUR DSCNT CLRNC THERE WAS NO 'BREAK' OR NEW CALL SIGN USED BY THE CTLR. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN THE CTLR SAID MAINTAIN 7000 FT, HE WAS TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE BUT AS FAR AS WE KNEW, WAS STILL TALKING TO US. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 423660: WE WERE BEING VECTORED FOR THE ILS RWY 35 APCH AT MCO ABOUT 30 MI S OF THE FIELD AT 8000 FT AND HDG 360 DEGS. APCH WAS VERY BUSY AT THE TIME. WE WERE GIVEN A TURN TO 330 DEGS AND DSCNT TO 7000 FT. THE CTLR HESITATED A LITTLE WITH THE DSCNT CLRNC, LIKE HE WAS GOING TO GIVE US LOWER BUT DECIDED ON 7000 FT. WE STARTED THE DSCNT AND TURN, GOT A CLB RA RIGHT AWAY, TURNED OFF THE AUTOPLT AND CLBED BACK TO 8000 FT. I ADVISED APCH WE WERE CLBING DUE TO AN RA AND HE SAID WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AT 8000 FT. I TOLD HIM WE WERE GIVEN A TURN TO 330 DEGS AND A DSCNT TO 7000 FT, AND HE SAID WE MUST HAVE TAKEN SOMEONE ELSE'S CLRNC. SEPARATION WAS ABOUT 900 FT AND 2-3 MI. WE GOT ON THE GND AND CALLED ATC AND WE BOTH AGREED SEPARATION WASN'T CRITICAL AND THE INCIDENT WAS DUE TO RADIO AND TFC CONGESTION. THANK YOU TCASII.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.