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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 444576 |
Time | |
Date | 199907 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : sxc.vortac |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4800 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-500 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Flight Phase | climbout : vacating altitude |
Route In Use | departure : noise abatement departure sid : musel 6 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 1000 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 444576 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : airborne critical non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Miss Distance | vertical : 1000 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Airspace Structure FAA |
Primary Problem | FAA |
Situations | |
Airport | procedure or policy : sna.airport |
Airspace Structure | class e : sct.e |
Narrative:
While departing sna on the musel 6 departure with a very demanding noise abatement procedure specified by company read file, we were told to vacate 5000 ft for 13000 ft. Because of the demanding procedure, the PF set 13000 ft in the MCP but momentarily did not push the VNAV button to start the climb. When he did start the climb, maybe 30-60 seconds late, we received a TCASII RA to descend. We descended to 4800 ft in response to the RA. At that time we spotted the conflicting aircraft, but socal departure came over the radio and indicated he showed us at 4800 ft. We confirmed that, and indicated that we had descended in response to an RA. He said, 'you cannot do that in this environment.' after the conflict passed, we continued the climb. I believe a large part of the problem here is the unreasonably demanding departure procedure required by the airport and city of santa ana. A stage III aircraft and a standard ICAO noise abatement profile should be good enough. A city or other municipality should not be allowed to dictate noise abatement procedures that are so demanding that they compromise safety.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CREW HAD TCASII RA ON DEP AT SNA.
Narrative: WHILE DEPARTING SNA ON THE MUSEL 6 DEP WITH A VERY DEMANDING NOISE ABATEMENT PROC SPECIFIED BY COMPANY READ FILE, WE WERE TOLD TO VACATE 5000 FT FOR 13000 FT. BECAUSE OF THE DEMANDING PROC, THE PF SET 13000 FT IN THE MCP BUT MOMENTARILY DID NOT PUSH THE VNAV BUTTON TO START THE CLB. WHEN HE DID START THE CLB, MAYBE 30-60 SECONDS LATE, WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA TO DSND. WE DSNDED TO 4800 FT IN RESPONSE TO THE RA. AT THAT TIME WE SPOTTED THE CONFLICTING ACFT, BUT SOCAL DEP CAME OVER THE RADIO AND INDICATED HE SHOWED US AT 4800 FT. WE CONFIRMED THAT, AND INDICATED THAT WE HAD DSNDED IN RESPONSE TO AN RA. HE SAID, 'YOU CANNOT DO THAT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.' AFTER THE CONFLICT PASSED, WE CONTINUED THE CLB. I BELIEVE A LARGE PART OF THE PROB HERE IS THE UNREASONABLY DEMANDING DEP PROC REQUIRED BY THE ARPT AND CITY OF SANTA ANA. A STAGE III ACFT AND A STANDARD ICAO NOISE ABATEMENT PROFILE SHOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH. A CITY OR OTHER MUNICIPALITY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DICTATE NOISE ABATEMENT PROCS THAT ARE SO DEMANDING THAT THEY COMPROMISE SAFETY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.