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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 448213 |
Time | |
Date | 199909 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : tnt.vortac |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 8000 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : egcc.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude descent : holding |
Route In Use | arrival star : daley one |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : relief pilot |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 448213 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
ASRS Report | 448214 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
While flying and cleared the daley 1 arrival from dcs, approach control told us to hold at rosun as published. Looking at the arrival, rosun was not found. However, consulting the ILS runway 24R chart and going direct via FMC, we were able to verify rosun and daley to be co-located. We then built a holding pattern at daley since we were on the daley 1 arrival, and had not been cleared any other arrival, and daley and rosun are at the same point in space. While holding, with 4 other aircraft on TCASII holding at daley/rosun, 3 of the 4 aircraft were in l-hand patterns and 1 was in a r-hand pattern. It was not until our last turn in holding we realized the possibility of our error. Due to frequency congestion and receiving vectors for the ILS runway 24R IAP immediately following the realization of a possible deviation and any error had occurred, verification via communication with ATC was not possible. Supplemental information from acn 448214: looking at the arrival, rosun was not found, however, consulting the ILS runway 24R (11-2 page) and going direct via FMC to rosun to build the holding pattern we were able to determine and verify rosun and daley were co-located. We then built a holding pattern in the FMC using rosun and the published holding pattern at daley from the daley 1 arrival, since we were on the daley 1 and had not been cleared any other arrival. Due to frequency congestion, receiving vectors for the ILS runway 24R IAP immediately following the realization of a possible deviation, and uncertainty if any error actually or possibly occurred, verification via communication with manchester control was not possible. I feel the fix being co-located (rosun/desired intersection) with both intxns having published holding patterns, to be a bit confusing. If ATC is going to use rosun and daley interchangeably, they either need to make the published holding patterns the same, or rename the intersection. When clearing aircraft to hold at intxns not on a previously cleared arrival, ATC needs to re-clear aircraft to the fix and the arrival -- ie, 'cleared to rosun, hold at rosun as published on the rosun 1 arrival.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B 767-300 FLC IS CONFUSED BY THEIR HOLDING CLRNC TO ROSUN INTXN AND INCORRECTLY USE THE L-HAND HOLDING PATTERN AS DEPICTED FOR DALEY, SAME SITE LOCATION, DIFFERENT STAR, N OF EGCC, FO.
Narrative: WHILE FLYING AND CLRED THE DALEY 1 ARR FROM DCS, APCH CTL TOLD US TO HOLD AT ROSUN AS PUBLISHED. LOOKING AT THE ARR, ROSUN WAS NOT FOUND. HOWEVER, CONSULTING THE ILS RWY 24R CHART AND GOING DIRECT VIA FMC, WE WERE ABLE TO VERIFY ROSUN AND DALEY TO BE CO-LOCATED. WE THEN BUILT A HOLDING PATTERN AT DALEY SINCE WE WERE ON THE DALEY 1 ARR, AND HAD NOT BEEN CLRED ANY OTHER ARR, AND DALEY AND ROSUN ARE AT THE SAME POINT IN SPACE. WHILE HOLDING, WITH 4 OTHER ACFT ON TCASII HOLDING AT DALEY/ROSUN, 3 OF THE 4 ACFT WERE IN L-HAND PATTERNS AND 1 WAS IN A R-HAND PATTERN. IT WAS NOT UNTIL OUR LAST TURN IN HOLDING WE REALIZED THE POSSIBILITY OF OUR ERROR. DUE TO FREQ CONGESTION AND RECEIVING VECTORS FOR THE ILS RWY 24R IAP IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE REALIZATION OF A POSSIBLE DEV AND ANY ERROR HAD OCCURRED, VERIFICATION VIA COM WITH ATC WAS NOT POSSIBLE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 448214: LOOKING AT THE ARR, ROSUN WAS NOT FOUND, HOWEVER, CONSULTING THE ILS RWY 24R (11-2 PAGE) AND GOING DIRECT VIA FMC TO ROSUN TO BUILD THE HOLDING PATTERN WE WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE AND VERIFY ROSUN AND DALEY WERE CO-LOCATED. WE THEN BUILT A HOLDING PATTERN IN THE FMC USING ROSUN AND THE PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERN AT DALEY FROM THE DALEY 1 ARR, SINCE WE WERE ON THE DALEY 1 AND HAD NOT BEEN CLRED ANY OTHER ARR. DUE TO FREQ CONGESTION, RECEIVING VECTORS FOR THE ILS RWY 24R IAP IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE REALIZATION OF A POSSIBLE DEV, AND UNCERTAINTY IF ANY ERROR ACTUALLY OR POSSIBLY OCCURRED, VERIFICATION VIA COM WITH MANCHESTER CTL WAS NOT POSSIBLE. I FEEL THE FIX BEING CO-LOCATED (ROSUN/DESIRED INTXN) WITH BOTH INTXNS HAVING PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERNS, TO BE A BIT CONFUSING. IF ATC IS GOING TO USE ROSUN AND DALEY INTERCHANGEABLY, THEY EITHER NEED TO MAKE THE PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERNS THE SAME, OR RENAME THE INTXN. WHEN CLRING ACFT TO HOLD AT INTXNS NOT ON A PREVIOUSLY CLRED ARR, ATC NEEDS TO RE-CLR ACFT TO THE FIX AND THE ARR -- IE, 'CLRED TO ROSUN, HOLD AT ROSUN AS PUBLISHED ON THE ROSUN 1 ARR.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.