B727 ground crew had complete lack of knowledge of deicing procedures at ord.

Attributes
ACN	460758
Time
Date	200001
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : ord.airport
State Reference	IL
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Weather Elements	Snow
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727-200
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : parked
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
ASRS Report	460758
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial
ASRS Report	460534
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : far non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb other other : 3
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Company Weather
Primary Problem	Company

Narrative:

Deicing problems. A snow storm in ord brought automatic deicing in ord. The deicing personnel had no idea what they were doing. After 1 hour 15 mins using 2 trucks, they still had not completed deicing. After consultation with crew chief and inspection from inside aircraft, we determined the airplane was clean and elected to leave the gate. The deicing personnel were not familiar with or had no knowledge of what a holdover time was, and did not inform us as to what that time might have been. After consultation with crew chief, we came up with our best guess as to what our holdover was and determined that we were within the limits on the holdover chart. For as little snow as chicago received, I have never seen such a poor performance from deicing personnel. They either had no training or had forgotten what they should have been doing. If it had been a major storm, we never would have been able to depart.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B727 GND CREW HAD COMPLETE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE OF DEICING PROCS AT ORD.

Narrative: DEICING PROBS. A SNOW STORM IN ORD BROUGHT AUTOMATIC DEICING IN ORD. THE DEICING PERSONNEL HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE DOING. AFTER 1 HR 15 MINS USING 2 TRUCKS, THEY STILL HAD NOT COMPLETED DEICING. AFTER CONSULTATION WITH CREW CHIEF AND INSPECTION FROM INSIDE ACFT, WE DETERMINED THE AIRPLANE WAS CLEAN AND ELECTED TO LEAVE THE GATE. THE DEICING PERSONNEL WERE NOT FAMILIAR WITH OR HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT A HOLDOVER TIME WAS, AND DID NOT INFORM US AS TO WHAT THAT TIME MIGHT HAVE BEEN. AFTER CONSULTATION WITH CREW CHIEF, WE CAME UP WITH OUR BEST GUESS AS TO WHAT OUR HOLDOVER WAS AND DETERMINED THAT WE WERE WITHIN THE LIMITS ON THE HOLDOVER CHART. FOR AS LITTLE SNOW AS CHICAGO RECEIVED, I HAVE NEVER SEEN SUCH A POOR PERFORMANCE FROM DEICING PERSONNEL. THEY EITHER HAD NO TRAINING OR HAD FORGOTTEN WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING. IF IT HAD BEEN A MAJOR STORM, WE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DEPART.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.