37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 466405 |
Time | |
Date | 200003 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : jot.vortac |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 20000 msl bound upper : 22000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Turbulence Rain |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau.artcc |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Route In Use | arrival star : veena 1 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 466405 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 125 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 4500 |
ASRS Report | 466410 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
As PNF, I was working the radios. I had acknowledged a clearance to descend and maintain FL200. As the aircraft passed through FL217, the center called us and said we were cleared only to FL220. I immediately responded 'no sir, I acknowledged FL200' there was no immediate response back from the controller, but shortly afterwards we were cleared to 17000 ft. That's all that was said about the matter. We received a frequency change and completed the flight routinely. I wouldn't even bother filing a report except for the fact that the FAA is now violating pilots for this very thing. How can we possibly be in violation when we are in compliance with the clearance we have accepted. An issued clearance isn't binding on the crew until it's accepted. If we read back an incorrect response and it isn't corrected by the controller, how do we know it's wrong? This just defies logic and it's because I don't know if any action will be taken that I'm filing this report.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LTT CREW HAD ALTDEV IN ZAU CLASS A.
Narrative: AS PNF, I WAS WORKING THE RADIOS. I HAD ACKNOWLEDGED A CLRNC TO DSND AND MAINTAIN FL200. AS THE ACFT PASSED THROUGH FL217, THE CTR CALLED US AND SAID WE WERE CLRED ONLY TO FL220. I IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED 'NO SIR, I ACKNOWLEDGED FL200' THERE WAS NO IMMEDIATE RESPONSE BACK FROM THE CTLR, BUT SHORTLY AFTERWARDS WE WERE CLRED TO 17000 FT. THAT'S ALL THAT WAS SAID ABOUT THE MATTER. WE RECEIVED A FREQ CHANGE AND COMPLETED THE FLT ROUTINELY. I WOULDN'T EVEN BOTHER FILING A RPT EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT THE FAA IS NOW VIOLATING PLTS FOR THIS VERY THING. HOW CAN WE POSSIBLY BE IN VIOLATION WHEN WE ARE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CLRNC WE HAVE ACCEPTED. AN ISSUED CLRNC ISN'T BINDING ON THE CREW UNTIL IT'S ACCEPTED. IF WE READ BACK AN INCORRECT RESPONSE AND IT ISN'T CORRECTED BY THE CTLR, HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S WRONG? THIS JUST DEFIES LOGIC AND IT'S BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF ANY ACTION WILL BE TAKEN THAT I'M FILING THIS RPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.