Narrative:

We were operating a scheduled flight from mco to fll. We were given to orl 6 departure off runway 17 at mco. We were cleared for takeoff. The takeoff and climb out of orl class B airspace was normal. Once we checked on with ZMA, they told us to do 310 KIAS or greater. The temperature at mco was about 26 degrees C, we also weighed approximately 51000 pounds. So, in order to do the 310 KIAS or greater, our climb rate would have to suffer. So we were climbing at about 8000-1000 FPM at 310 KIAS. Then ATC asked our climb rate. I was flying, so the captain responded '800-1000 FPM.' they also asked our speed again. ATC then told us to turn left to 060 degrees and called the traffic to us at the 1 O'clock position. I never saw the traffic visually. I did have them on the TCASII. We never got an RA or even a 'traffic' or a 'climb, climb.' the TCASII was in normal operation as well. So we turned to the assigned 060 degree heading and continued to fll. We never even knew there was a separation problem until we got on the ground at fll. Once we cleared the runway at fll, the ground controller told us to call a number and talk to the shift supervisor at ZMA. The captain called and then told me what happened. I believe the controller thought that our climb rate would be better than it was. When the captain called, the shift supervisor even said that their manual said we could climb 3000 FPM, that's just not true at that temperature and weight. I think the ATC manual's information about the cl-65 should reflect actual realistic climb rates, so problems like this will not occur. Supplemental information from acn 469145: the ZMA controller gave us a traffic call 'EMB120 1 O'clock and 5 mi.' we responded with 'no contact.' the EMB120 told ZMA they had us visually. A new controller came on and the flight continued uneventfully. The center supervisor told us that we had lost required separation with the EMB120. We were 4.3 mi and 500 ft apart. The CL65 will not climb at 3000 FPM about 10000 ft. I could say the average climb rate is 1500-2500 FPM above 10000 ft. This number gets lower as the aircraft climbs in the 30's to about 500 FPM. I would also like to let controllers know that if they ask an aircraft to speed up in a climb, the climb rate will be less than normal.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A CLBING CL65 LOSES SEPARATION WITH A CRUISING EMB120 WHEN ZMA CTLR MISJUDGES THE CL65'S PERFORMANCE NEAR MCO, FL.

Narrative: WE WERE OPERATING A SCHEDULED FLT FROM MCO TO FLL. WE WERE GIVEN TO ORL 6 DEP OFF RWY 17 AT MCO. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. THE TKOF AND CLBOUT OF ORL CLASS B AIRSPACE WAS NORMAL. ONCE WE CHKED ON WITH ZMA, THEY TOLD US TO DO 310 KIAS OR GREATER. THE TEMP AT MCO WAS ABOUT 26 DEGS C, WE ALSO WEIGHED APPROX 51000 LBS. SO, IN ORDER TO DO THE 310 KIAS OR GREATER, OUR CLB RATE WOULD HAVE TO SUFFER. SO WE WERE CLBING AT ABOUT 8000-1000 FPM AT 310 KIAS. THEN ATC ASKED OUR CLB RATE. I WAS FLYING, SO THE CAPT RESPONDED '800-1000 FPM.' THEY ALSO ASKED OUR SPD AGAIN. ATC THEN TOLD US TO TURN L TO 060 DEGS AND CALLED THE TFC TO US AT THE 1 O'CLOCK POS. I NEVER SAW THE TFC VISUALLY. I DID HAVE THEM ON THE TCASII. WE NEVER GOT AN RA OR EVEN A 'TFC' OR A 'CLB, CLB.' THE TCASII WAS IN NORMAL OP AS WELL. SO WE TURNED TO THE ASSIGNED 060 DEG HDG AND CONTINUED TO FLL. WE NEVER EVEN KNEW THERE WAS A SEPARATION PROB UNTIL WE GOT ON THE GND AT FLL. ONCE WE CLRED THE RWY AT FLL, THE GND CTLR TOLD US TO CALL A NUMBER AND TALK TO THE SHIFT SUPVR AT ZMA. THE CAPT CALLED AND THEN TOLD ME WHAT HAPPENED. I BELIEVE THE CTLR THOUGHT THAT OUR CLB RATE WOULD BE BETTER THAN IT WAS. WHEN THE CAPT CALLED, THE SHIFT SUPVR EVEN SAID THAT THEIR MANUAL SAID WE COULD CLB 3000 FPM, THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE AT THAT TEMP AND WT. I THINK THE ATC MANUAL'S INFO ABOUT THE CL-65 SHOULD REFLECT ACTUAL REALISTIC CLB RATES, SO PROBS LIKE THIS WILL NOT OCCUR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 469145: THE ZMA CTLR GAVE US A TFC CALL 'EMB120 1 O'CLOCK AND 5 MI.' WE RESPONDED WITH 'NO CONTACT.' THE EMB120 TOLD ZMA THEY HAD US VISUALLY. A NEW CTLR CAME ON AND THE FLT CONTINUED UNEVENTFULLY. THE CTR SUPVR TOLD US THAT WE HAD LOST REQUIRED SEPARATION WITH THE EMB120. WE WERE 4.3 MI AND 500 FT APART. THE CL65 WILL NOT CLB AT 3000 FPM ABOUT 10000 FT. I COULD SAY THE AVERAGE CLB RATE IS 1500-2500 FPM ABOVE 10000 FT. THIS NUMBER GETS LOWER AS THE ACFT CLBS IN THE 30'S TO ABOUT 500 FPM. I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO LET CTLRS KNOW THAT IF THEY ASK AN ACFT TO SPD UP IN A CLB, THE CLB RATE WILL BE LESS THAN NORMAL.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.