Narrative:

During a 4 day training period at richmond, the following difficulties were encountered: 1) not one ILS approach was ever vectored to intercept the GS from below as required in the 7110.65 paragraph 5-9-1. 2) turns to final were often in excess of 135 degrees. At least 1 turn was 180 degrees from the downwind. 3) on the VOR runway 16 approach for which radar is required, approach turned us over to tower without calling the FAF. When we asked tower for the call they did not understand what we were asking. 4) when we requested to intercept the GS from below, we were told to expect a long final. Thinking a 10-15 NM final was coming, we were shocked when the DME read 27 NM! Since there were no other aircraft in or out and we were going with the active runways, this was obviously disciplinary vectors! 5) give illegal clearance, 'hold as published' from approach plate while en route from roa to ric. Same problems were encountered at roa. Fortunately it was VMC by then so we could see the terrain we were driving to as the controller let us fly through the localizer without so much as a word (as in 'expect vectors across..., etc). The sad thing is, this was very costly training since richmond never got us close to the GS or the localizer. With poor technique and vectors it had to be repeated (VFR) on our own at $230/hour. If this is the service to be expected, I will not trust either of these facilities with my life in IMC.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A PA44-180 SEMINOLE INSTRUCTOR PLT RPT ON THE QUESTIONABLE TREATMENT RECEIVED DURING TRAINING FLTS FROM ROA APCH, RIC APCH AND RIC TWR CTLR DURING A TRAINING SESSION AT RIC, VA.

Narrative: DURING A 4 DAY TRAINING PERIOD AT RICHMOND, THE FOLLOWING DIFFICULTIES WERE ENCOUNTERED: 1) NOT ONE ILS APCH WAS EVER VECTORED TO INTERCEPT THE GS FROM BELOW AS REQUIRED IN THE 7110.65 PARAGRAPH 5-9-1. 2) TURNS TO FINAL WERE OFTEN IN EXCESS OF 135 DEGS. AT LEAST 1 TURN WAS 180 DEGS FROM THE DOWNWIND. 3) ON THE VOR RWY 16 APCH FOR WHICH RADAR IS REQUIRED, APCH TURNED US OVER TO TWR WITHOUT CALLING THE FAF. WHEN WE ASKED TWR FOR THE CALL THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT WE WERE ASKING. 4) WHEN WE REQUESTED TO INTERCEPT THE GS FROM BELOW, WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT A LONG FINAL. THINKING A 10-15 NM FINAL WAS COMING, WE WERE SHOCKED WHEN THE DME READ 27 NM! SINCE THERE WERE NO OTHER ACFT IN OR OUT AND WE WERE GOING WITH THE ACTIVE RWYS, THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY DISCIPLINARY VECTORS! 5) GIVE ILLEGAL CLRNC, 'HOLD AS PUBLISHED' FROM APCH PLATE WHILE ENRTE FROM ROA TO RIC. SAME PROBS WERE ENCOUNTERED AT ROA. FORTUNATELY IT WAS VMC BY THEN SO WE COULD SEE THE TERRAIN WE WERE DRIVING TO AS THE CTLR LET US FLY THROUGH THE LOC WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A WORD (AS IN 'EXPECT VECTORS ACROSS..., ETC). THE SAD THING IS, THIS WAS VERY COSTLY TRAINING SINCE RICHMOND NEVER GOT US CLOSE TO THE GS OR THE LOC. WITH POOR TECHNIQUE AND VECTORS IT HAD TO BE REPEATED (VFR) ON OUR OWN AT $230/HR. IF THIS IS THE SVC TO BE EXPECTED, I WILL NOT TRUST EITHER OF THESE FACILITIES WITH MY LIFE IN IMC.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.