An A300 flight crew is about to bust an altitude crossing restr when ATC gives them a 360 degree turn for altitude control and ability to comply with restr at rbv, nj.

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Attributes
ACN	483890
Time
Date	200008
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : rbv.vortac
State Reference	NJ
Altitude	msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 10000
Environment
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	artcc : zny.artcc
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	A300
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other other vortac
Flight Phase	descent : vacating altitude
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
ASRS Report	483890
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
ASRS Report	483886
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance other anomaly other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance

Narrative:

Location: rbv, 180 degree radial, 3 NM. Asked by ZNY to cross rbv at 8000 ft. Descent from FL190 was normal, but became apparent that crossing restr might not be met due to high tailwinds. Increased descent rate and had to keep speed above 250 KTS to make altitude restr. Just prior to rbv, center asked us to make a 360 degree right turn back direct rbv to rejoin the arrival. I believe we could have made the crossing restr, but at a higher airspeed. We were given the turn just as we were going to ask if speed or altitude was the requirement. ZNY did not indicate any further problem. Supplemental information from acn 483886: first officer did not consider tailwind, 35 KTS, and speed reduction. Just as we were going to tell center unable, passing 10000 ft, center gave us a right 360 degrees to rejoin arrival. While we didn't actually miss our crossing altitude, thanks to ZNY, we probably would have. I believe we miscalculated because the speed reduction is implied due to the altitude being under 10000 ft rather than specifically stated, 'cross rbv at 8000 ft, 250 KTS.'

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: AN A300 FLC IS ABOUT TO BUST AN ALT XING RESTR WHEN ATC GIVES THEM A 360 DEG TURN FOR ALT CTL AND ABILITY TO COMPLY WITH RESTR AT RBV, NJ.

Narrative: LOCATION: RBV, 180 DEG RADIAL, 3 NM. ASKED BY ZNY TO CROSS RBV AT 8000 FT. DSCNT FROM FL190 WAS NORMAL, BUT BECAME APPARENT THAT XING RESTR MIGHT NOT BE MET DUE TO HIGH TAILWINDS. INCREASED DSCNT RATE AND HAD TO KEEP SPD ABOVE 250 KTS TO MAKE ALT RESTR. JUST PRIOR TO RBV, CTR ASKED US TO MAKE A 360 DEG R TURN BACK DIRECT RBV TO REJOIN THE ARR. I BELIEVE WE COULD HAVE MADE THE XING RESTR, BUT AT A HIGHER AIRSPD. WE WERE GIVEN THE TURN JUST AS WE WERE GOING TO ASK IF SPD OR ALT WAS THE REQUIREMENT. ZNY DID NOT INDICATE ANY FURTHER PROB. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 483886: FO DID NOT CONSIDER TAILWIND, 35 KTS, AND SPD REDUCTION. JUST AS WE WERE GOING TO TELL CTR UNABLE, PASSING 10000 FT, CTR GAVE US A R 360 DEGS TO REJOIN ARR. WHILE WE DIDN'T ACTUALLY MISS OUR XING ALT, THANKS TO ZNY, WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE. I BELIEVE WE MISCALCULATED BECAUSE THE SPD REDUCTION IS IMPLIED DUE TO THE ALT BEING UNDER 10000 FT RATHER THAN SPECIFICALLY STATED, 'CROSS RBV AT 8000 FT, 250 KTS.'

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.