37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 484207 |
Time | |
Date | 200009 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : vny.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tracon : cyyz.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Bonanza 36 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 16r |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival star : lynx |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Recip Eng |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 16r |
Flight Phase | descent : vacating altitude descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : private pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 40 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 70 |
ASRS Report | 484207 |
Person 2 | |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude conflict : nmac non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued alert none taken : insufficient time none taken : detected after the fact |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 300 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was on LYNX7 STAR to vny. Controller (I thought) cleared me for runway 16R ILS approach. He later claimed he told me to maintain 5000 ft. I do recall he told me he would be allowing faster traffic to pass me and would be turning me off localizer later on. I then heard an exchange between a gulfstream and my controller. Gulfstream was cleared for visual, vny, but gulfstream corrected controller and said 'no, going to bur.' controller said ok and I thought that was the faster traffic, so I continued approach figuring I would continue on the approach. Controller asked gulfstream where he was going. Gulfstream said bur visual via newhall pass (which is where I was). Controller rebuked gulfstream and said 'negative, you are cleared visual bur, you go direct, this isn't a contact approach, do you understand sir?' gulfstream replies 'yea.' then controller asks me, 'say altitude.' I say, '4500-4600 ft on ILS.' he says, 'I told you to remain at 5000 ft, I told you faster traffic behind. Turn right (no heading given) and climb immediately.' I comply and as I start right turn out of 4500-4600 ft twin propeller goes overhead to airport (vny) same direction as me at about 5000 ft. What if I had stayed at 5000 ft as he said he wanted? I was only doing about 110 KTS and maybe 130-140 KTS for twin. Approach should have described faster traffic as propeller twin and I wouldn't have assumed it was the gulfstream. I simply don't recall being told to maintain 5000 ft and what if I did?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NMAC BTWN A BEECH BONANZA BE36 DSNDING AT NIGHT ON THE ILS AND PROP TWIN PASSING OVERHEAD, ALSO DSNDING ON THE ILS. APCH CTLR HAD JUST TURNED RPTR OFF LOC FOR SEPARATION FROM THE OVERTAKING, FASTER TWIN, IN ACCORDANCE WITH WHAT HE HAD SAID HE WOULD BE DOING.
Narrative: I WAS ON LYNX7 STAR TO VNY. CTLR (I THOUGHT) CLRED ME FOR RWY 16R ILS APCH. HE LATER CLAIMED HE TOLD ME TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT. I DO RECALL HE TOLD ME HE WOULD BE ALLOWING FASTER TFC TO PASS ME AND WOULD BE TURNING ME OFF LOC LATER ON. I THEN HEARD AN EXCHANGE BTWN A GULFSTREAM AND MY CTLR. GULFSTREAM WAS CLRED FOR VISUAL, VNY, BUT GULFSTREAM CORRECTED CTLR AND SAID 'NO, GOING TO BUR.' CTLR SAID OK AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE FASTER TFC, SO I CONTINUED APCH FIGURING I WOULD CONTINUE ON THE APCH. CTLR ASKED GULFSTREAM WHERE HE WAS GOING. GULFSTREAM SAID BUR VISUAL VIA NEWHALL PASS (WHICH IS WHERE I WAS). CTLR REBUKED GULFSTREAM AND SAID 'NEGATIVE, YOU ARE CLRED VISUAL BUR, YOU GO DIRECT, THIS ISN'T A CONTACT APCH, DO YOU UNDERSTAND SIR?' GULFSTREAM REPLIES 'YEA.' THEN CTLR ASKS ME, 'SAY ALT.' I SAY, '4500-4600 FT ON ILS.' HE SAYS, 'I TOLD YOU TO REMAIN AT 5000 FT, I TOLD YOU FASTER TFC BEHIND. TURN R (NO HEADING GIVEN) AND CLB IMMEDIATELY.' I COMPLY AND AS I START R TURN OUT OF 4500-4600 FT TWIN PROP GOES OVERHEAD TO ARPT (VNY) SAME DIRECTION AS ME AT ABOUT 5000 FT. WHAT IF I HAD STAYED AT 5000 FT AS HE SAID HE WANTED? I WAS ONLY DOING ABOUT 110 KTS AND MAYBE 130-140 KTS FOR TWIN. APCH SHOULD HAVE DESCRIBED FASTER TFC AS PROP TWIN AND I WOULDN'T HAVE ASSUMED IT WAS THE GULFSTREAM. I SIMPLY DON'T RECALL BEING TOLD TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT AND WHAT IF I DID?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.